AO Advice: Fine-Tuning Your College List

Webinar Transcription

2024-04-24 – AO Advice: Fine-Tuning Your College List

Lydia: Hello, everyone. Welcome to “AO Advice: Fine-Tuning Your College List.” My name is Lydia Hollon, and I’m going to be your moderator tonight. I’m a senior advisor, CollegeAdvisor, and I’ve been with the company for about three years now. And in addition to advising students, I’m proud to be a co-captain of our essay review team.

I’m also a proud graduate of NYU, I’ve actually got my sweatshirt on today. Hi, and in addition to working with CollegeAdvisor, I’m an education consultant as well as a former teacher. To orient everyone with the webinar timing for tonight, we’re going to start off with a presentation, then answer your questions in a live Q&A.

On the sidebar, you can download our slides and you can start submitting questions in the Q&A tab. We’re going to be recording this session so that you can review the webinar again later. So don’t worry if you have to go get something to drink or anything like that. You can always watch it after the fact. Now let’s meet our presenter.

Joanne: Hi, everyone. My name is Joanne Pluff. I am a former Associate Dean of admission at Hamilton and a Senior Associate Director of admission at Utica College. Currently in my role right now, I work at Howard University in Washington, DC, where I serve as an Associate Vice President.

Lydia: All right, great. So we’re going to start off the presentation with a quick poll. What grade are you in? Um, if you’re a parent, just feel free to choose the other category. So while we give you all a moment to answer that question, Joanne, I’m just curious, what was your college application process like?

Joanne: So my college application process, I would say, um, started in my junior year because I was a recruited athlete. So I had to really start doing my research, um, much earlier on than I would say your average student. So for me, by the time it was December ish, I knew where I was going because it was dependent on if I was going to play. But typically right now that falls into the timeline for most students, which is awesome.

So typically by December, there’s at least like a good laid out plan of what students are going to do. And even if you’re applying to schools later on in the process, there’s at least a way for you to get organized. So

Lydia: that’s great. Uh, I definitely wish I could have known that I was where I was going that soon, but it all worked out.

So, uh, yeah, I’m going to close the poll now. It seems like we’ve got 50, 50, 50 percent in 11th grade and 50 percent parents. So. Everybody’s in the right spot tonight. I’ll go ahead and pass it off to you, Joanne, to get us started with the presentation.

Joanne: Okay, awesome. Um, so if you’re going to submit questions, I recommend using the Q&A because I can’t really chat on the fly here, but I’m happy to answer any questions as well as I can for you.

So. Um, this is a pretty short presentation, but I know that there are probably extenuating circumstances that students really want to have their questions answered for, and I look forward to answering those questions shortly. So, when we’re talking about fine tuning your list, um, what makes a good college list?

So I came up with the things that typically students nowadays that I’m interacting with, um, say that these are the things that they’re always looking for. So obviously college is, you know, 85%, um, I would say social, emotional growing and that experience. However, um, You do have to select a college for a place of where you are going to be able to figure out what you’re going to do with life.

So it’s super important that if you’re applying and you want to work in. a lab. You have to make sure that they have either clinical lab sciences, they have a biology program, chemistry, whatever that field is, make sure that the university or college you’re applying to has that. Because there’s nothing worse than falling in love with an institution and then they don’t have what you want to study.

The other thing about majors is I recognize right now that that’s a pretty heavy decision for a student to be making. Like the idea that you’re going to select right now what you’re going to be doing in your life is. is daunting for some and know that it’s okay to be undecided and many universities have the option to transfer into majors, but if you’re truly undecided and you don’t know, it’s important for you to choose a university that does have that transfer path and figure out how they’re going to support you.

So the goal for us as institutions is to make sure that you Graduate within four years. But if you don’t have a school that is more, I would say, welcoming to that exploratory kind of major, that may not be the best fit for you. So definitely looking at the major, the next thing to look at is size. So. You know, we both have a caseload of students and my students very much vary.

So I have some students who say, you know, I want to go to a research one institution that has 40 to 50,000 people at it. Cool. So you’re looking at a small college town like Ohio State. Um, when I say college town, like the college is the town. Or, you know, on the other hand, I have students who are looking at schools of a thousand or less.

So figure out what it is you want. I particularly while in the college process did not care about size, but for people who truly are looking for more hands on one to one with professors, if that’s important to you, find that fit. Not every student, you know, I came from a large public high school. So it was easy for me to acclimate in many different settings, but not everybody wants that.

If you’re looking for more, um, conversational style instead of lecture halls, if you want to be in a lab with only 10 people instead of 40 to 50, that’s completely up to you. This is one of those times in life you get to be very, very selfish. The other big thing to look at is the location. So there are so many colleges both in and outside of this country for students to go to, and the location is important.

I remember, you know, not to harp on my own experience, but when I was being recruited, something that was really important to me is I wanted to make sure that my parents could come to my games. You know, I lived in the Northeast. I’m from Massachusetts. So for me, I’ve never had a soccer game or a track meet where my parents didn’t go.

And I was being recruited all over the country. I think the furthest I went was, um, Um, I went to California. There was a school that I was looking at in, um, Vancouver. So, there are many different options for you in terms of type, in terms of location. If you are a home body and you still want the college experience, maybe an hour away, maybe half an hour away.

If you truly want to go for it and you’re okay being in new spaces all alone, Um, cool, do it. But remember that that decision you’re making is sometimes hard. I think, you know, when I’m working with students today, homesickness is one of the number one factors that, um, that students kind of struggle with because it’s tough to be alone in a new place and not know anybody.

And it is overwhelming. And while some do well with that, That’s not for everybody. So definitely considering the location and then you want to measure. Are you looking for a rural campus, suburban campus? Are you looking for an urban campus? Um, a friend of mine studied fire science, right? So, like, you’re not going to find fire science in New York City.

She took those classes and went to a college up in the Adirondack mountains in New York. So, cool. It definitely depends on what you want to do. Again, it’s not for everybody. It’s not gonna be everybody’s cup of tea. This is your cup of tea. So it’s important to listen to what you want. And then the last thing I would say is just the vibe of the space.

Um, you know, research does show that students truly make their decision about a college based on the experiences that they have on campus and the feeling of when they arrived there. So, you know, It’s great. You know, your junior year or senior year, you’re going to the open houses. You’re going to the accepted students days.

You’re, you know, engaging with these different colleges. Try to go at a point when it’s not all done up nice for accepted student day or open house. Really and truly see if you’re interested in that university. when the lights are low and it’s just your average Tuesday. Think about if you like that, you know, the students are all interested in band if you’re good with that.

Or is it that you really love coffee and you want to make sure that there’s a good coffee drinking crew for you. Whatever it is you’re looking for, just know that there’s a college for you, but you do have to do some research. So when we’re talking in the college admissions world, um, you’ll typically hear the phrases reach target and likely throughout the entire process.

So reach school is a school that might be academically a stretch for you. It’s usually at the top. Um, a target school is 1. that’s 100%. So you fit, it works, and a likely school is one that you’ll be more qualified for. So every year around the month of August, after our students start matriculating, each university will put out what’s called the class profile.

So the class profile will be the profile of the current incoming first year class. So it will tell you the average SATs, Um, ACTs, GPA. How many AP Scores where they came from male or female? They’ll give you a lot of demographics. You’ll use that to determine your reach target and likely schools for the ones that you’re interested in.

So those reach schools like those are typically ivy leagues. Um, You know, if you are, if you’ve taken the SATs or ACTs, you know, typically they’re looking for a perfect score or a near perfect score. If you don’t have that, that may not be a school for you. Your target schools that you’re going to be dead on.

So you have the exact average GPA and the exact SAT or ACT scores if required. And then the likely schools, I think they sometimes get a bad rap because they say, um, it’s more of your safety. We like to say likely just because it’s not, it’s not easy thing to get into college, but there are just so many of them that it does give you that opportunity.

So just remember that it doesn’t have to be safety school. It’s just a school that you’ll likely be admitted. And like I said, the, the academic profiles will come out. In the next couple of months as students start to matriculate and it’s super important to be honest with yourself, your parents, your guidance counselor, there is nothing worse than creating a list of many reach schools and not having a good grasp on your academics.

It only hurts you in the end if you’re not honest about it. So we always recommend, you know, I tell students like it’s not embarrassing. It just is what it is. We got to find you a place and we’re going to find you a good place. Now this ratio that we’re going to talk about for your target reach and likely schools is very important.

I think I referenced this a couple of months ago when I was talking to another group of students. So if y’all haven’t watched, there’s a show called Never Have I Ever. Um, and the reason I bring it up is because the student was a college age or college bound student, really smart, great APs, SATs, ACTs, stellar, amazing.

She applied to every single Ivy League school and was mostly denied and or waitlisted from just a few. That is not a robust college list. We recommend that you have five to seven target schools, one to three reach, and then one to three likely. You want to build your list with schools that we know that you’ll have a high success of being admitted.

Now, no one’s saying not to reach for the stars. I think you should do it. However, the college landscape because of the SATs, ACTs, because of the changes with COVID, because it’s opened many doors for students. It is not a good idea to only have REACH schools on your list. I’m currently working with a student, so she, some will take your advice, some don’t.

Um, she had, I think, six REACH schools and the other were likely, but the bummer part about the likely schools is she truly doesn’t want to go there. Um, and so, So right now we’re going through the process to figure out where she can go. Um, you also want to have options. So like I said, when I was a student and applying to university, I got most of my decisions, um, between December and January, and I had eight schools that I was admitted to.

So I had a lot of options. It doesn’t have to be that way for everybody, but if cost is a factor, if you’ve not been able to visit, if you’re choosing between majors, you want to make sure that you have the opportunity to have all the choices that you want. So padding your list with only reach schools is not a great idea.

Um, and then, you know, as we’re talking about applications, you typically will see Next couple of months, you know, a student locally or within your state who applied to 50 schools and was admitted to all 50. There is no need for that. Please don’t do that to us. Don’t do it to your family. The common app actually only accepts 10 applications at a time.

So the amount of work that you would have to do to submit and like, Take off all those colleges is just a ton of added stress. That’s truly, truly not necessary. A healthy list of 10 schools is awesome. And if you’ve done your research, you’ll be just fine.

Alrighty, so how can we narrow down that list? Right? So, you know, I typically start and there’s a service that CollegeAdvisor can provide for you based on some information that you submit to us. So how do we narrow down the college list to a reasonable number? So when I’m working with my like early year juniors and sophomores, we just go ahead and work on it.

Tons of schools, right? So we pick schools that just are strictly based off of majors, um, you know, Google searches to find the outcomes of students. We just build a massive, massive list and then we whittle things away from there. You should get as organized as you can. So if you haven’t started that college process, or maybe you’re starting now, I always recommend the families to do a trustee spreadsheet and share it within your family so that you can keep track of your research.

And while you’re researching, like I said, the number one thing you want to do is take a look to see if the major That you’re interested is on that list. Then, um, think about the gainful employment, right? So I am working with a student right now whose parents were not super happy because she was applying for philosophy, which is more of a liberal arts major and they’re like, well, You know, what, what does one do?

What, what are the graduates of philosophy do? And most of them went into law school, um, or they became doctors. So make sure when I say gainful employment, it means they’re employed with the major that they attended the university for. So make sure that you do your research. Are there any famous alums that came through that program?

If there are students who are gainfully employed, where are they working? Is there a pipeline for those students on that campus? Those are some of the questions and, um, thoughts you want to think about when you’re evaluating for major. Another big opportunity is, you know, for the parents on or students, just know that the job market is getting super crazy.

And for most people, when you exit college, you do need to have some type of experiential learning on your, um, your resume. So check and see and find out from the universities if they offer internship or externship, um, and, uh, support and opportunities. Most do, but you never know. It’s just something you want to double check.

And then of course, just thinking about after college support. So my alma mater will provide, um, let, let’s say, you know, my, I double majored in public relations and communications with a minor in marketing. If I decided that I did want to go and work in a lab. They would help me figure out how to get there so I can call them and I can say, you know, major life changes over here.

I want to be a biologist and they would help me through that process and they would provide some resources for another big thing is the monetary value. So how much does the school offer in financial aid? So, obviously, you know, if you haven’t been paying attention or you’re not aware. Things are a little bit crazy right now in the United States with the FAFSA because of the FAFSA debacle, I would say, of 2024.

So right now, the federal government has, well, last year, the federal government decided to overhaul the FAFSA application, which is the free application for federal student aid. And we typically get their information almost instantaneously, but because the FAFSA has changed, we haven’t received that information yet.

So every school right now, um, required by the government has to have what’s called the net price calculator. So the net price calculator, if you’re honest with your financial savings, GPA, will provide for you a general idea of how much you’ll pay for the student to go to that institution. For every school that’s on your list, I highly recommend doing the net price calculator because it will give you a decent idea.

Now another thing to look at is does the school meet full need? So there are only a few dozen colleges in the United States that meet 100 percent of a student’s financial need, but there are many that provide merit or need based scholarships or and or endowed scholarships. So if money is a factor and you do need some support, looking at the monetary value is important.

And then, phew, another, um, another factor that universities are required to, uh, report on is the loan indebtedness of our recent graduates. So I would say most universities should have this information handy and can be provided to you through the financial aid office. Then, of course, there’s a personal value.

Um, like, do you know students who work, who went to this university? Are you just super excited because their mascot is purple and your favorite color is purple? Whatever those personal values you have for any institution, it matters because It’s your college list. That’s very personal. And then the last thing I always tell my students to look at is, um, the students need and the support services that are on campus.

Not all colleges offer support services that are free. Some, um, do require students to pay. So if you have an IEP, a 504, if you fall in the realm of any type of accommodation, if you have a disability, whatever the thing is, make sure that that school offers that because you will need it for your success.

And then of course, size, location, student to faculty ratio, you know, where’s the dining hall, all of those things are very, very important.

Alrighty, so when should you have your school list finished? So truly it should be the early summer of your junior, your senior year. So for any juniors that are on right now, rising seniors, you should be getting close to completing that list. If you’re an athlete, it really should be done well in advance.

Most coaches, depending on your sport, will want to see you perform throughout the year and the summer, and they typically would like to know, so that timeline is usually accelerated. But it’s typically recommended that Your list should be finished, um, about the end of your junior year.

And how will I know if a particular school is a good fit? So, it’s crazy to think, but I tell students all the time, you will know. You will know when you visit if you really like it. Being there. If you like the look of the buildings, if you like, you know what the professors were talking about, I always urge people to talk to the current students.

So student ambassadors are ambassadors are awesome. They’re typically students who give tours and or are associated with whatever visit program that you’re on. But the important thing is to remember that they are working and they’re trained to say those things. So if you see a student just sitting under a tree or on the bench, talk to them and ask them about their experience on campus.

All colleges will have, um, visit opportunities over the summer, they’ll have virtual visits, they will have visits in the fall. Try to go if you can. And if you’re not able to, if cost is something, there are sometimes visit programs that will pay for you to go to those colleges over the summer. And that’s part of that research that we were alluding to.

Um, of course, again, I cannot say this enough, it must have your major. It’s very, very important. Um, if you don’t have the major, it’s kind of like wasting a lot of money, um, on something that is determining where the rest of your life would go. And then of course, you know, your happiness with the location and the size, those come to hand in hand in hand in our tandem.

Um, and it’s. Again, important for you to figure out what it is you’re looking for so that you know,

Lydia: I would definitely echo what you were saying, Joanne, just about the importance of visiting colleges. I feel like when I speak to students and to families, a lot of the time there’s this emphasis on visiting colleges in order to get a competitive advantage. But I think the most important thing and the most impactful thing is actually just knowing whether or not it’s a school that you actually like.

I think the actual weight of whether or not you visit it in terms of admissions decisions is little to none, actually. So yeah, and

Joanne: you have to get a baseline too, you know, like I’ll send my students out and they’ll say, I don’t want to go visit the college down the street. I’m like, Go because you’ve never visited any college, right?

So like, we don’t even have a place to start if you don’t check it out. I, you know, obviously like insider kind of vacations, but when I go on vacation, I visit schools because I want to be able to tell my students like, Oh, this is how I felt. Like it is so important to get your own feet on the ground and see with your own eyes, um, some of the places and picture yourself there.

So,

Lydia: uh, we’re just going to take a brief break from the presentation just to let you all know about the virtual college and career summit. So, the virtual college and career summit is coming up in a few weeks on Saturday, May 4th or in a week now. Um, it’s on Saturday, May 4th from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. Eastern Time.

It’ll be co-hosted with U.S. News and NSHSS. The purpose of the event is for high school students to engage with college admissions representatives, industry leaders, and fellow students and parents. We’re going to have a variety of industry experts sharing insights into various portions of the college admissions process, as well as an exhibit hall that students can connect with dozens of colleges and industry professionals.

Representatives. We’ll also have some CollegeAdvisors own former admissions officers at the event at a booth to answer your questions. All right, I’ll pass it back to you now, Joanne. Thanks.

Joanne: Okay. Um, so this is a question I think we get almost daily. Like, what is an admissions officer? What are you looking for in a student?

So know that the number one indicator, let me back up, most colleges and universities complete what’s called a holistic review. It means that we evaluate the whole student, not just their academics. But that being said, we do need to know if you can academically hold up to the requirements of the university.

So one of the largest factors is academics. So I’m not saying that it’s all of it, but it is academics. And for those schools that are not test optional, obviously they’re looking at their SATs or ACTs. But the first thing we look at is to see how did you do in school? Um, and it’s the whole picture. So, Did you have mostly A’s?

Did you have A’s and B’s? In the classes that you had A’s and B’s, was it an upward trajectory? And then what did you take in school? So if they offer dual enrollment or AP classes, did you take those classes? Did you challenge yourself? Or do you have, you know, a semester of all study halls? Study halls are great, but they don’t show us your academic, um, achievements.

So just keep that in the back of your mind. The other thing that we look at is As much as we want to admit you, we also want to admit students who want to attend the university. So have you interacted with us? Did you go on virtual visits? Did you do an interview with an alum or someone within the office?

Most of those supplemental essays, Yeah, they are. Some are optional. Some are not. They’re not optional. If they are optional, do it. It’s another way for you to tell us something that your application doesn’t say. The other thing that’s going to start happening is in the next couple of weeks, admissions officers in the spring and the fall will start doing high school visits.

Did you go to the high school visit and meet with somebody from my university? Did you attend our open house? And did you extend, you know, the accepted student days and or other activities that happened during the enrollment cycle? So we take that into consideration, like I said, because we want to admit students that actually want to be in our classes.

And while not every university looks at demonstrated interests, quite a few do. And quite a few take that. Very, very seriously. And then the other thing that we look at, um, is how you would positively contribute to the university. So, you know, my current institution are, I think to myself when I talk to our students, you know, I actually don’t know if I went to college based on some of the things that they tell me that they do.

We need students to continue on with our traditions, our activities. We need. Presidents of clubs. We need people who start clubs. It’s important to continue a vibrant social life because that’s kind of what you do in your spare time. So do your extracurriculars fall within our, um, our current activities?

Are there things that you do that we know that you’ll continue on here? Are you super into volunteering? Do you play an instrument? Are you in the band? All of that stuff is important to us because like I said, we’re looking at the whole picture. And then I love to tell students, you know, When they come and visit us, we’d love for you to have like a special activity that perhaps somebody else doesn’t do or we don’t have yet, because we would love for you to come and start that activity on our campus.

All right, so last advice that I’d give for students fine tuning the college list. So, it’s really important to be honest, um, with your family. So, if you truly have your heart on being in California, and you’re from Maine. You should tell your parents sooner rather than later. It’s very stressful. The entire process is stressful, but it’s so much fun and it’s so exciting and it’s going to yield great, great things.

But you do have to be honest about what you want because there’s nothing worse than being at some place that you don’t want to be for four years. So if you truly want to go to a conservatory and you want to dance, you Cool. Just talk to your parents about it so you guys can make this decision together.

This is the one time in your life that I tell students that they need to be selfish. Um, I worked with a student last year that she really loved the library. Um, she wanted to go to a college that had a lot of library and studying opportunities. Mind you, she didn’t study in libraries when she was on, uh, in high school, but she decided that this is something that she really, really wanted.

So we found her a school with six libraries that she could go to and she loves it, you know? So if that’s truly something that you want, if it’s something niche, if it’s something very personal, go. I was, like I said, for me, it was really important. I didn’t care about size. I didn’t care about location. I just wanted my parents to be able to come.

So I found a school where my parents could come in and see me. The other thing to do is just to be honest and be realistic. So everybody’s baby is amazing. Um, you know, I don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings or to kill your dreams, but the reality is there are many students applying to different colleges.

You have to be honest about your academic ability. If you fall within the range, Awesome. If you don’t keep it moving and find another college that you fit within their range.

Lydia: All right. Thank you, Joanne. So now we’re going to jump back into the That’s the end of the presentation. Now we’re going to jump into the live Q&A. So I know some of you have submitted some questions in the Q&A tab. I’m going to read those out loud and give Joanne an opportunity to answer it. I may also give my two cents as well.

As a heads up, if your Q&A tab isn’t letting you submit questions, just double check that you joined the webinar through the custom link in your email and not from the webinar landing page. So the first question that we have is for international students. The student is asking if you’re living abroad, what is the best way to get in touch with students at a college to get a feel for the campus?

Joanne: Okay, so the first thing I should rewind back, every university has admissions officers and they are typically broke down by territory. Some offices have every officer doing international, um, working with international students, and then other universities have somebody who’s dedicated. The best thing to do to get in contact with a student at the university is to reach out to whoever is the regional person for your country or your state.

State and they can connect you with people from your country, international students, people in your major. That’s their job. There would be nothing more satisfying to for an admissions officer to get a request to connect with someone, um, from their like country or state. So I would say reach out to them.

The other thing I will tell you is most offices will post their, uh, um, their student ambassadors. So you, with their, um, contact information. So you can usually go to the website to find a student to talk to, but if you can’t, most admissions officers, like I said, that regional person can connect you with someone.

Lydia: That’s good to know. Um, so another question that we have is about basically choosing colleges and how to make that decision. So, is there ever a factor that is too trivial when choosing a college to add to your list or making that final decision about which college to go to? I know sometimes people say, like, you shouldn’t choose a college just because you want to be somewhere warm. Is there really such thing as a bad reason? to out of school.

Joanne: I don’t think that there’s really a bad reason. I just, I, you’re going to spend for, you know, I went to my alma mater for my graduate school, so I ended up spending six years there. Like if this is a large chunk of your life, I don’t believe that there is something trivial.

And the reality is like, what’s important to me may not be important to you and vice versa. And also recognize that. It may be something small on my end, like, you know, having a bike rack because I like to ride bikes, but if that’s what I need to feed my soul, like, that’s kind of what I need. And for many students, you know, finding the things that you need are important because this is the first time you’re going to be on your own.

So to me, I don’t see it as trivial. I would see it as taking the opportunity to, to get what you want. And because there are so many colleges in this country, this world, it, you have the opportunity to be as specific as you want.

Lydia: So, um, the next question that I have, it’s kind of similar to the, the first one I asked about being an international student, and you provided some ways that you can learn more, but what kind of factors should a student be considering, um, if they’re not able to visit most of the colleges that they’re interested in, and they’re not able to just get that general vibe?

Joanne: Yeah, for sure. So the first thing is, is almost every college has some kind of virtual component. If they don’t, that at this point is shocking to me. We’re four years outside of COVID. Like, if that’s the one thing college has learned is put as much virtual opportunities up for students as possible. The other thing would be, um, if you are in a certain country, I would hope and maybe the, you can reach out to the alumni associations as they can probably connect you with alums from those different countries.

But your biggest tool would be connecting virtually and talking to students, faculty, staff. We love talking about our colleges. There’s nothing more that we wouldn’t we would. you know, rather be doing. So I just recommend your outreach being pretty specific. Find a staff member, find a faculty member, find an advisor, speak to the dean, and then find a whole bunch of students from that university.

It’s tough, you know, going to see something sight unseen, because obviously in those virtual visits and virtual tours, those campuses look beautiful, right? It’s usually a sunny day. Like I don’t think I’ve ever seen a bad virtual tour, but you’re going to have to go into it with a grain of salt. And I think the virtual visits have been enhanced to really assist with that problem of being able to travel.

I will say that. So I think they’re a lot more robust, but every college has some kind of virtual visit component for almost every single applicant.

Lydia: Yeah, I would echo that. I think, uh, doing virtual visits is definitely helpful. But also like YouTube and Reddit can be good ways to figure out what like just a day to day life is like for the average student.

I know when I was in high school and trying to decide where I was going to go, I was like watching a ton of my day in the life going to NYU videos to kind of get an idea of what it was going to be like, even though I didn’t go to the campus, um, initially. So that can be a helpful way. Also, Reddit is a great tool, I think, just because people can be very, very candid

Joanne: on there.

And honest. Absolutely. And then I also think about, like, the cool thing about social media is the students that you’ll see on social media in this cycle will be cycled off. So you’ll get a fresh. batch of faces for, you know, admission seasons fall 24 to spring 25. So almost every college does like a follow me along today.

Like there’s got to be an athlete out there taking you through their day. There has to be a student who’s, you know, doing an internship. So most large, even small institutions have a lot of large social media presence for students to follow.

Lydia: So another question that a student has is about target schools and reach schools.

So they’re saying that some students, they’re really only interested in the most selective schools, like, you know, the top 15, top 20. Would you say that there could be a strategy where they just apply to a bunch of REACH schools in order to increase their likelihood of getting into one if they’re just genuinely not interested in the safeties or targets that they find?

Joanne: That is a bad plan. That is a very, very bad plan. You have to have a safety school. You never know what’s going to happen. Like, I have a student who was waitlisted at Harvard. We have no idea if Harvard’s going to go to their waitlist. You don’t know. You have absolutely no idea. My university received 26 percent more applications than last year.

That means we denied more students than we admitted. This, that’s a bad, bad plan. And I will just say, You know, for the Harvard’s for the all of those Ivy League schools, they’re amazing, but also recognize that the schools that are not in the top 15 are also excellent. So if you find what you’re looking for, and you’re solely focused on.

Those top 15, I worry that you will not have enough options to make a decision and that is a costly decision to make based on just their ranking through U. S. News and World Report.

Lydia: I, I heavily agree with that. I don’t think that’s a good strategy. Um, Obviously, you know, if you’re thinking about it in like a simple, very simple way of, Oh, it’s a 5 percent chance at each of these schools.

If I applied to X amount, Oh, I’m bound to get into one of them. But it’s very different when you think about what these colleges are looking for, right? If your GPA or your SAT score or whatever isn’t, At a certain, you know, threshold, maybe that makes you really competitive for these schools. You could apply to, you know, all of the top 20 schools, but if you’re not where they need you to be for that admission cycle, it could end up just being a fail for for everything.

So it’s really important to have. That assortment and I would also just push back for any student that genuinely feels like I only like schools that are in the top 20 or I only like schools that are in the top 15. Really take the time to do more research because I think a lot of students and families get very caught up on rank and that ends up being the only reason that they actually like a school is just because it sounds impressive to say that you go to Harvard.

It sounds impressive to say that you go to Yale, but really think about what do you want your college experience to actually be? Do you even actually know what your experience would be like if you went to Harvard? beyond being able to say that you go to Harvard. Um, and that will help you decide what your reach school, what’s your target school, what your safety school should actually be.

And that’ll probably make you happier in the long run too, because there are plenty of people who go to top 15, top 20 schools and they aren’t happy there because they just, applied there for the name and not for the actual experience.

Joanne: The other thing to remember is like, at least in the US, we are required to fulfill certain standards for accreditation, right?

So like the colleges that are out there are accredited by governing bodies, the same governing bodies that look at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Brown, Dartmouth, like They’re the same bodies looking at every single college. So accreditation, once your college is accredited, like know that there are good people there.

There is science happening there. There are internships. So it doesn’t have to be that, um, that push for the top, the top 20 schools.

Lydia: Great. And sometimes the school that is, can have a really strong program, but not be highly ranked. Overall, that’s I think goes back to what you were talking about earlier, Joanne, with like doing the research on your major, because you may find a school that is really great for what you want, but may not be super famous just overall.

Joanne: Absolutely, absolutely. I think about that with like our niche majors. I’m working with a student, she majors in psychology child life, which is not something that your average person knows about. It’s a five year master’s degree. She is one of one in the state of Texas with this degree and runs and oversees All of the psychology child life programs for a university hospital system.

So like just you, you never know. And yeah, ranking is cool. It’s important. They’re, they’re historic universities. We, you know, pay homage to them. We aspire, but it’s not the end all be all. If it doesn’t fit for you and you don’t match the GPA, Try not to have that many of them because it’s going to be a tough spring.

That Ivy week is very tough on our side of things.

Lydia: Definitely. And sometimes there are professors that will teach at really well known and highly regarded universities, and will also teach at other universities that are not as highly ranked. I know that at NYU, I had professors that also taught at the CUNY schools.

NYU students were paying significantly more than students in my security school. We were getting the same course taught by the same professor. So yeah, lots of things to consider. Another question that I’ve got for you, Joanne, is basically about Religious schools. So should a student only apply to say a school that is Catholic or Methodist or, you know, has some sort of religious affiliation if they align with that faith or is it more broad than that?

How important should religious alignment be when applying to a religious school?

Joanne: So I think the religious aspect comes into play when it comes to more social situations. And what I find is, you know, If being Catholic and going to church on Sundays is very important to you, then going to a Catholic school, it just makes it easier because they typically have church on Sunday.

Um, like one of my, the schools that we recruited against, they always had their accepted student day on Sunday because they would create a congregation with all the admitted students. So if that’s important to you, awesome. If not, know that in the college space, there are so many choices. So nobody’s forcing you to go to church.

You may be required to take, you know, like, I don’t know, Catholic 101 or something like that. But for the most part, there is so much religious freedom. I don’t, as I would say here in the U. S., I don’t find that students who go to like a Jesuit school or a Baptist school, like they’re not like overrun with.

um, religious policies and such. It really just means that there is a large presence on campus. There are, they will observe those holidays. So they get your Christmas, your Easter, St. Joseph’s days, like those are very important days on their campus. But if you don’t participate, nobody’s going to judge you.

Lydia: Yeah, I would agree. I think most schools that have some sort of religious affiliation, it has more to do with, you know, The general culture that they might encourage, but and then also just like the mission and things like that. Like, we’re guided by this. specific faith and this is why we value service or things like that.

There are a handful of schools that I can think of that, you know, they may have certain policies or like a moral code. Like, for example, Brigham, Brigham Young, like BYU, that’s an example of one where students have to kind of uphold certain values and, you know, follow certain rules because of the religious affiliation.

But I think For most schools, it’s not usually as strict as that.

Joanne: Yeah, it’s definitely not. And I think that’s one of the beauties of college is we are hoping that you’re able to make your own decisions. So however you show up in those spaces, you’re welcomed. And if you don’t go, it’s not that you’re unwelcome.

It’s just that you’re welcome. you’re not there and nobody is any the wiser.

Lydia: Okay, so another question that I’ve got for you is what is the most common mistake that you’ve seen students make when building their college list?

Joanne: Applying to too many REACH schools. That’s, The number one mistake. And, you know, and I’m sure you do the same. Um, when you’re working with students, like I require that transcript up close personal as soon as possible.

So I know, you know, for my sophomores that I’m working with, I know the kind of caliber student they are. Now, upper trajectory, definitely cool. You know, it’s awesome. But I, you typically know the kind of student that they’re going to be in their junior year. And we just have to be honest, applying to too many reach schools is a problem because we don’t want you to have nos.

We want you to have as many yeses as possible. And the reaches are a dream, right? Like everybody, every girl’s allowed to dream. Every boy’s allowed to dream every day. Everybody is allowed to dream. Um, but if you have too many reach schools, it really does make your decision. I would say harder when you have less schools that said yes.

Lydia: Yeah, and so another question that we got is just about, um, trying to choose target schools. The student’s asking, is it difficult to choose, like, a target school at the end of the application process? So let’s say that you don’t get into any of your reaches. How do you make sure that you’re happy with the schools that maybe aren’t as selective and maybe you felt like you were settling a little bit.

Joanne: I mean, the target school shouldn’t be settles, right? Like they should be still schools that you are pumped up about. Um,

many private schools, even state schools these days, just keep up with the privates. Like if they, they offering financial aid packages, like we all need college students. Like there’s not many colleges in the U. S. that are not begging for college students. And while I think the reach schools offer more endowment because they’re highly selective and they’re not admitting, you know, 50 to 60, 000 percent or 50 to 60 percent of their applicant pool, they can do that because they are Harvard.

But you’ll figure out the, the target that you want to be at, because at the end of the day, if your list is accurate, that target is a school that you would actually see yourself going to, like, don’t waste anybody’s time applying and taking a spot from a student for a school that you don’t think you could see yourself going to.

Be honest, if, if you love it, you love it. If you don’t, I tell my students, just leave it on the cutting room floor, right? Like, let’s move on. We thought we did keep it moving. Find the schools that really speak to your vibe and that you want to be there and don’t waste anybody’s time. Your parents, your mom, your dad, grandma, whatever.

Don’t waste anybody’s time. If you don’t want to do it, you don’t want to be there. You don’t want to be there and that’s okay.

Lydia: So this is kind of on the other end of the spectrum. So rather than being a student who only has a really small amount of schools that they actually like, let’s say that you’re a student that.

You’re just kind of easy to please and you could see yourself almost anywhere. You’re kind of a chameleon. Is there such thing as applying to too many schools or playing it too safe?

Joanne: I think really safe is like 12. You know, if you have a list of 12 schools you’ve applied to and eight of them aren’t target schools, that’s, that’s grounds for a little bit of disaster.

Like there has to be something you can select off from some of these schools. But again, if you’re a student that. Really does have a hard time making those decisions. Buckle up, right? Like, buckle up, get grandma, get grandpa, get mom, dad, or stepsister, whoever. Y’all are gonna have to take a road trip and go see these schools because that may be the only way you’ll be able to make the decision.

Lydia: And do you have any advice for students who are having a difficult time getting on the same page as their parents about the colleges that they’re interested in? Whether that be because of finances or because maybe they want to go out of state, but their parent only wants them to stay in state. How do they facilitate that conversation?

Joanne: So I would say use your resources. Your average student has a guidance counselor or college counselor or us, if you’re in that, um, in that bracket. And I have a student now whose parents, you know, didn’t want them to go out of state. And we had that conversation up front. And we talked about, you know, Looking at the six schools that she was admitted to, I said, these are the breaks, right?

Like, reality talking. This is when your student is going to be able to come home. This is when spring break is. Are you okay with this? And it’s also a little bit of growing up for the student. So, if you don’t talk to your parent every day, Or text them throughout the day. Like you may have to shift that, you know, everybody’s got to do a little bit of growing up.

So I would say my best advice is to have that conversation soon. And everyone needs to be realistic. I pray and I hope that the parents that are on this are going to let their students flourish if their desire is to be elsewhere, I hope that you allow them to be elsewhere. If their desire is to stay home, I hope that you allow them to stay home.

Um, not every student is okay with going away. Not every student is okay with being at home, but whatever your student wants, I hope you are there to support your student on their academic journey. Because like I said in the beginning, 85 percent of college is your academics and there’s that 15 percent of life learning.

I would want your students to have a positive four years learning about life in a place that they’re comfortable, not a place that they hate.

Lydia: And I think I would like to just reiterate something that you said earlier, which is just having those honest conversations as soon as possible, especially when it comes to finances.

I have worked with students who, um, Did not have a clear understanding of their family’s financial situation. Until it was too late and I think it’s almost more devastating for a student to get into their dream school and then find out that the only thing keeping them from it is finance finances than for them to just know, okay, I probably just shouldn’t apply to this school because we’re just not going to be able to make it work.

So having those open and honest conversations from the beginning, and if you are in a situation where maybe you have a parent that isn’t supportive of you going. To a certain school or something like that. I think just being realistic about the consequences of that choice. I think sometimes students think that, you know, oh, I can just do this on my own, but loans are a very real thing.

So, be conscious of the decision that you’re making, if you decide to just say, I’m going to go it alone, even if my parents are providing me the support that I otherwise would have received.

Joanne: And that’s just like a whole other conversation about like financial literacy. Like if you are a student that maybe you’re the test baby, maybe you’re the oldest student in your family and nobody’s gone to college, maybe you’re first gen, maybe you’re international.

All of these colleges will have financial aid sessions. Be realistic, right? So it costs 56, 000 to go to my university and not every student gets merit scholarship. Not every student gets a need scholarship. You have to be realistic. If push came to shove, would your parents have over 25,000 to send you to school?

That is such a huge important thing. And if they do have that money, think about how that impacts your family, right? Like, can they eat? Are they able to do the things they need? Do you have other siblings? Like there is so much based on this decision. And while we want you to get what you want, you also have to do what’s right.

Um, if your family is going to support you, Take that into consideration if, if they said yes. And like you said, loans are very real.

Lydia: Definitely. Um, so we’re going to take a quick pause from the Q&A, just for me to talk a bit about CollegeAdvisor. So for those in the room who aren’t already working with us, we know how overwhelming the admissions process can be.

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Okay, so the next question that I’ve got for you is what is the most effective metric to use for categorizing a school into target, reach, or safety. Should they use the percentage of students that were accepted last year? Should they use the range, the 25th to 75th percentile for GPA standardized testing? What’s the most effective way to categorize the schools?

Joanne: It’s a combination. It’s truly just the academic profile of the class before you. So there are some years where the incoming class has average SAT of Let’s say 1450 and then next year, maybe it’s only a 1380. It really truly depends on the year and the most up to date information you’ll find will come out the, I would say August of your senior year.

So usually it doesn’t change that much, but using the, um, using the academic profile is the best way. And if you literally just Google academic profile that I did at college, it will come up. So I would say it’s a combination of all of those. And it’s the academic profile that will give you that information.

Lydia: So, um, another question that I’ve got is, should students ever take into consideration who else is going to a school when deciding whether or not to attend? Like, oh, I have friends that already go here, or I have other friends that were accepted with me. Is that, is that something that should be considered? Or should you only think about the other factors that we already discussed?

Joanne: So yeah, I mean, I think if if it’s important for you to go to a school with people that you know, I think that’s fine. I don’t think it has to be a determining factor. The only thing that I will say is I always caution about going to school with a significant other because that can sometimes leads to problems and you never want to follow someone around.

To a university just because you’re in a relationship, you want to forge your own path and do your own thing. So I don’t think it’s so much matters. I think it’s cool. I, I opted to go to a school where none of my, um, no one else that I went to high school with was accepted to, I purposely wanted to do that.

So I think it’s definitely a personal preference, but just be careful with more romantic partners because it could lead to issues down the road.

Lydia: I would say never let other people be The primary or sole reason that you’re going to a school, um, because. At the end of the day, who knows where those relationships may go, whether it’s a friendship or a romantic relationship, you want to base it on something that’s going to be more consistent.

Like, I know that I want to major in biology and this has a really strong biology program or something like that. Um, I, I agree with you. Like, if you’re the kind of person where, you know, you would really struggle being in an environment that felt completely unfamiliar, Then I think that it’s a valid thing to consider, but it shouldn’t be, um, It shouldn’t be the only determining factor is

Joanne: what we’re trying to say.

Like, it’s cool to have friends. It’s cool if you think it’s cool, but number one, no.

Lydia: Yeah. And also going to college, it’s such a pivotal moment. in your life and sometimes you may be missing out on an opportunity to really explore a new side of yourself if you’re choosing to go to a college where you already know a ton of people there.

Joanne: And we want you to step outside of your comfort zone, even if it’s just a little bit, we still want you to do that.

Lydia: So, um, another question, or our final question for the night is, do you need as long of a college list if you’re planning on applying early decision or early action to schools, or should you just focus on the early application first and then decide after the fact what the rest of the list is gonna be?

Joanne: So I wouldn’t wait until after the fact I would go into the plan. So pick your early decision school and then have your early actions and your regular decisions lined up because early decision typically comes out, you know, December, Christmas, Hanukkah week, um, late December. If you need to pivot and go to a different direction, you want to be ready.

You want those applications to be situated. You don’t have to write any extra essays. It’s all about having a plan. So yes, you should have a list, even if you’re applying ed. All

Lydia: right, well, that is the end of our presentation for tonight. Thank you so much, Joanne, our wonderful presenter.

Joanne: Absolutely, happy to help.

Lydia: And we had a really great time talking about making your college list. And here is our April webinar series. If you’d like to join us again sometime later this month, next week. Hope everyone has a good night. Bye. Bye.