Developing Depth and Breadth in Extracurriculars

Webinar Transcription

2024-07-10 – Developing Depth and Breadth in Extracurriculars

Lydia: Hello, everyone. Welcome to, “Developing Depth and Breadth in Extracurriculars.” My name is Lydia Hollon, and I’m your moderator tonight. I’m a senior advisor, a CollegeAdvisor, and I’ve been with the company for about three years now. And in addition to advising students, I’m also the proud co captain of the company in of our essay review team. I’m also a graduate of New York University and in addition to my work with CollegeAdvisor, I’m an education consultant and a former high school teacher. To orient everyone with the webinar timing, we’re going to start off with a presentation, then answer your questions in a live Q& A.

On the sidebar, you can download our slides and start submitting questions in the Q& A tab. We’ll also be recording this session so that you can review the webinar again later. Now, let’s meet our presenter.

Anja: Hello, everybody. Um, welcome. My name is Anja Abney. I apologize for my voice. I do have bronchitis, but I’m at the recovering end of it.

So, um, I will do my best, um, to, to keep it up. So, I am originally from Germany. Um, I live in New York City at this, at this time. Um, I have been, uh, I’ve been a CollegeAdvisor as a senior advisor for about a year now, but I have worked in higher ed in the United States for almost 30 years, and I have worked in admissions as well as having been a high school college counselor.

A lot of time I work with international students from abroad as well as domestic high school students. So welcome. I’m super excited webinar and talk a little bit about extracurricular activities.

Lydia: Great. Now let’s do our first poll, which is what grade are you in? If you’re a parent, feel free to just click the other option and then open it.

Seems like we’re having issues opening it. That’s why. So while I give you all a chance to do this, uh, I’m curious Anja, what was your application process like when you were applying to college?

Anja: Back in the day, um, this is about, you know, 30 something years ago, um, I applied to two universities and it was very much financially driven.

Um, because I was coming from another country and you know, now you can apply for up to as many schools as you want. So 22 colleges was all I chose and it was paper applications back in the day. So many, many things have changed over time. Um, but the information was pretty much the same, right? It is all about who are you?

Um, What are your grades like? And what are you bringing to the university? Um, when, when we admit you to a campus. So the information was pretty much the same. It was very stressful. I’m not going to lie. There was still an interview process back in the day. And I know some schools still do that, but, um, most of us don’t do that anymore.

So, um, I just like to say, you know, it changes every year. Um, even still today, after 30 years of reading applications, it changes every year, but schools are looking for, it’s really hard to, you know. come up with a theory or if I had the magic information, then you know, I would be rich and I would tell everybody exactly where, where they needed to go.

But it is definitely an interesting, an interesting, um, a cycle every year for us to go through with these applications. So very many things have changed since my day.

Lydia: Yes, I mean, for me as well, like I see how much applying to college has changed since I was applying to college and I just feel like it’s a space that is moving so quickly, especially after the pandemic.

I feel like the way that we think about college applications is just, it’s been completely reinvented. Yes, 100%. All right, so it seems like the majority of our audience is in the 12th grade category or a parent. So definitely everyone here is in the right space for tonight, thinking ahead before you start your senior year.

So I’ll go ahead and pass it off to you so you can get us started with the presentation.

Anja: All right, thank you. Okay, so let’s talk about extracurricular activities and what does that really mean for a college application and you know, like I said, many things change every year, but you know, do we think that this is an important part of the college application and I will say for somebody who has read applications for many different universities, it absolutely is an important part and this is why.

Um, when I look at a college application or any admissions counselor, we will see your grades, right? We will see your SAT scores, but that doesn’t tell me very much about you as a person. As we are, especially since the pandemic, like we just said, are changing our approach to admitting students. It is very much a holistic review of the application.

So your grades and scores of SATs, ACTs are still important because it shows us academic strength. and you know, successful academic passing of courses. But what else is there to you as a person? Um, what differentiates you from the other 40, 000 applications that we might be looking at? Um, extracurricular activities also show me things about you in regards to what are you passionate about.

I can see the major that you choose. I can see the courses that you took in high school, but Do you like art? You know, are you going for engineering? But do you like art? Do you play a sport? Like what else is there that you have done for your community? Have you been involved in any type of community activities?

And how has that pertained to your growth throughout your years of high school? So it is an important part of the application, and it is something that many, many students start working on. As early as middle school. And some parents start working on that, you know, as early as kindergarten, getting this, their children involved in a sport.

or in an art or, you know, in music. Um, so there are many different things that a family can do to make themselves stand out with extracurricular activities. If we do have mostly rising seniors at this point, let’s talk also about, you know, what does it look like on your college application? And how can you use the activities that you have to make yourself stand out?

Because now you’re at a time where it’s not going to be so critical to add more things. So what types, uh, what kind of extracurriculars, um, Can you participate in during high school or have you already participated in? And there, of course, are many, many different things. The easiest thing will always be a school club, right?

That’s easy access. Your school will offer many different things that you can join, whether it is student government or it’s a sport or an environmental club or an art club or any of those things that are offered at your, at your high school specifically. But you could also do many other things like have a job.

You could do volunteer, which is very important now for a lot of universities. They would like you to be engaged with the community, not just with the, with the high school, but also what are your hobbies? Do you like to read? Do you like to draw? Um, do you play in, in a theater? Are you, are you an artist? So those things.

Those are all activities that we want to see on your common app when you start filling it out. And again, sort of describing what skills have you learned in this activity and how has it helped you grow throughout your high school career. So many families think you really want to do as many as activities as possible geared towards the major that you’re going to choose.

And that is not necessarily correct. Because as we know, as admissions counselors, you are all very young, even as rising seniors. Even though you wanted to be an engineer for the last three years, when you start college, you may go, Oh no, I don’t want to do that at all. I want to study psychology. So then, just having activities that are geared towards engineering really are kind of meaningless in a way.

And I want to see other things that you like to do because I am expecting you to potentially change your major. So when I admit somebody and I read the Common App, I’m looking at you as a person. So I want to see as many diverse activities as you can list because it shows me all the different things that you’re interested in and that will sort of make you stand out when I want to bring you to my campus.

So when it comes to how many activities, um, that’s always a question I get from parents. 10 is the maximum that you can list on the Common App. Awards and honors are a separate part of the Common App application. Um, you don’t have to have 10 activities. Some people tell me they have 15, and where are they going to put the other five?

I don’t think I want to look at all 15. I want to look at the top of the top. That could be three, that could be five, or it could be 10, depending on what the activities are. and how you are describing them and for how long you have done that. So as you are rising seniors, don’t start to add five activities, you know, your senior year because you want to come up to have a total of 10.

That’s not necessary. In fact, many schools and many admissions counselors will look at that as like a last ditch effort to sort of, you know, prep up your game. But if you have four or five solid activities that you have been involved in for you know, 34 years or like I said, even since childhood, I rather see that because it shows that you are committed to something that you love or something that you have found a passion for.

So quantity is not necessarily as important as quality. And that usually means duration and consistency that I want to see in an activity. So how can you demonstrate that when you when you list an extra critical activity or when you choose something? That’s usually means that you’re going above and beyond and just telling me that you joined the environmental club, you joined student government, you joined the soccer team.

Um, you, you know, you took an art class, you did a summer program. Tell me more about those things when you write it up in your common app. So number one, again, we want to see that you’ve done it for a certain amount of time. Maybe since 10th grade you have been in band or, you know, you were on the debate team.

Have you moved up in the ranks? Have you maybe, um, acquired a vice president role, or, you know, have you done the treasurer of a club or anything like that? Those things are important. Have you organized events for your, for your, for your club, or have you participated in competitions where you maybe won an award?

All of those things, um, are important and show that you are really involved in the activity, other than just telling me that you have joined the club. And then how do you, um, demonstrate breadth? Well, your activities can be connected to your interests as well as what you’re interested in academically. So you want to explore related areas.

So let’s say you’re really interested in science or biology or environmental science. You know, look for, look for an environmental club in your school or volunteer cleaning up a beach. Um, you know, help the community when it comes to environmental resources. Like what, what can you do, um, to support that sort of Um, activity or initiative in your community, um, if you don’t have anything like that on campus, create a club like that, you know, create, um, um, a beach clean event, uh, if you’re really into environmental science, things like that, um, you know, again, volunteering community service.

It’s so important. It’s not something many families or students think about because again, they think the activities are geared towards the academics. But volunteering, even if it’s an animal shelter or a homeless shelter or at a local church, really shows maturity and it shows that you are concerned about others.

And many schools are looking for that now when they’re looking at the Common App. As well as cultural activities and diversity. Is there some type of event in your town that has to do with a minority? Um, or, you know, some, some festival about culture that you want to get involved in and help volunteering at.

Um, those are great things to show in your application, no matter what you want to study. Those show you as a human being, and they show me as an admissions counselor and somebody who reads your application, that there’s much more to you than just your grades and, and your potential test scores.

Lydia: All right, so thank you for that. We’re going to do one more poll. to see where everyone is in the college application process. I’m going to open that up now. And so, um, Anja, I’m curious. I know that you have worked in admissions offices at Fordham. So I’m curious, what has been the most impressive list of extracurriculars that you’ve seen, or what really stands out to you when you’re looking at a list of extracurriculars?

Anja: Um, again, you know, I love, I love the students that are involved in different things. I think that often when I see a lot of high level internships. You know, somebody was shadowed there, a doctor at a hospital. Um, I find that impressive and also concerning as a high school student to be walking around a hospital.

Um, but you know, there are certainly creative ways that students really get into sort of showcasing that they have gone above and beyond just joining a club, right? They are really into doing research projects are amazing, but I love, I love the volunteer projects. I had a student that, um, sponsored herself.

She did fundraisers. She went to Costa Rica and she helped women in Costa Rica with medical needs. I had a student that created a business to help women in Latin America and Brazil with feminine hygiene project products. You know, those are the things that creative thinking in supporting your community that are impressive to me versus just maybe going to your dad’s office as a lawyer and saying, you know, I spent the summer.

watching, you know, what a lawyer does. I think there are more creative ways to get involved in the community and showing your interest in a topic or, or an area that you are concerned with. I have a student now going to Pakistan to teach English. Um, him and his dad want to build a school there. That’s where his family is from, you know, but he’s a math major.

So, um, again, not really related, but, you know, super, super excited for him to have this opportunity. Um, so there’s a lot of ways that students can make themselves stand out. And it’s, Something else to remember when it comes to these activities is not everybody has equal opportunity or access. And that is something that we take very serious when we review these applications, right?

Like I said, if your father is a doctor and you get to spend two summers in a hospital and you want to study pre med, that’s a privilege not everybody has. A normal teenager cannot approach a hospital and say, can I just walk around and see what you guys do? And that is something that we do keep in mind, right?

Not everybody has equal access. So, um, some people get really creative. Because they don’t have have those kind of, um, connections and networking availability. So there’s a lot going on. Students are very creative.

Lydia: Thank you. All right. So I’ll pass it back to you to finish your presentation portion. Okay.

Anja: All right. So one of the things that I always like to point out is, um, many students like to what I call over over involved themselves again, because they think that I have to have many internships, many summer programs at high ranking universities, a job. I have to. you know, volunteer and I have to do all these things.

Time management is really important and you are all still teenagers and you still have school. So it is important to have a balance between your academic workload and what you’re doing for fun outside of school that you want to include in your college applications. School will always be the most important thing.

Your grades are always the most important thing. Never forget that. But the ways that you can deal with time management is you have to create a schedule. You know, I was a big visual learner. I had a big, um, wall calendar where I would put everything down. And when the days were getting too crowded, I knew I needed to cut something out.

So make sure you have a visual for a week or a month so you know, you know, maybe this is a little bit too much for me. I still need to make time for all the tasks and, and things I have to do at school or things that I want to do with my family, right? You still have to have a life. You have to, you have to be able to say no.

Um, if somebody approaches you and says, you know, but don’t you also want to maybe help me run this club? Or would you like to come and join band? Or you will be really great on the soccer team. If it’s too much, you have to say no. And you have to communicate that with your teachers and with your coaches.

That is very important. You have to be able to draw the line and say that there is just something you cannot do, because they are there to support you. And your academics are always most important.

So most of you are seniors. Um, then, you know, at this point, um, sorry, I need to just take a little water

that this year is going to be all about college applications, um, as well as showing leadership in your activities. So if you have done certain things for an extended amount of time, here’s your chance to really focus on stepping it up. But again, you have to also write essays. You have to, um, look at college applications. So make sure you have time for all of those things.

Now it’s getting personal. So, um, looking at myself, I’m assuming that’s what that question was about. Um, Back in the day, um, what I was really big into was soccer. I was a very big athlete. Um, at the same time, I also, um, supported my mother at home. She was a full time worker, as was my dad. So I tutored my brother and I also studied abroad in France.

So those were the things that I was really involved in. Um, growing up in Germany, doing internships as high school students and working were not a common thing. Um, and I also didn’t have time for those things because I was really involved with my family. So that was my priority. Um, but those were the things at the time that, that really took up most of my time.

Um, I think that, um, well, I got a scholarship for soccer, so it must have been kind of good. Um, so again, sports can be a big thing on your activities list because you can, you know, work with coaches to get some kind of funding, um, and play on a, on a college level, which I played for a very small school, so it wasn’t that competitive, but it was nice to get a little extra funding.

And because I played it since I was five years old, I think it showed My school determination. I was determined. I was committed. I was a leader on the soccer team. Um, the fact that if you have a chore at home, if you’re supporting a family member, if you’re taking care of a family member after school, you have to list that on your activities.

That is a very important part of your life. And I did that. And so I, when I see that on an application that really shows maturity. So never think that you should not list, you know, I support my little sister or I’m tutoring my brother. Um, those things are very important. The fact that I was from a different country, I think, showed that I was bringing diversity to the campus.

And, you know, when you’re multicultural, whether you’re a dual citizen or your family is from another nationality, um, it really shows your, um, flexibility to a college counselor.

Well, I didn’t do it, uh, okay. When I originally started, um, my college journey, I was going to go into business. I was going to work in an international company. I studied foreign languages and I was going to make a lot of money and travel the world. Well, that’s not what I’m doing right now. Um, I’m still traveling the world.

I still studied foreign languages and I recruit abroad for universities. But I think being on the soccer team really made me aware that I want to be a leader of a team. So I work with others and I am, you know, trying to mentor them, um, and get them on the right path for their own career. And that is sort of what sports has helped me, um, figure out about myself, um, loving other cultures and studying languages.

I knew I wanted to travel the world and I knew I wanted to learn more about other cultures and working with students abroad is what I do now. And, um, it is a huge passion of mine. Um, to work with families and help them understand what it’s like to come to the U. S. What their children will have to, to go to, um, to adapt.

And, you know, working with my mother and being a support system for her, again, really showed me that I am a caregiver. So, I like to take care of others and, again, I like to help families abroad, um, help their students find the right college, um, work on their applications and tell a strong story. So that colleges will really see who these students are and then that they want to bring them to their campus.

Lydia: All right Thank you so much for that presentation. I know I learned a lot So now we’re going to jump into the Q& A portion of our presentation for tonight. Uh, just as a reminder, you can download the slides from the link in the handouts tab. And I’m going to read through the questions that you all submit.

If you’re having issues submitting any of the Q& A questions, just double check that you joined the webinar through the custom link in your email and not from the webinar landing page. And if you’re still having issues, you can try logging out and logging back in through that link in your email. And just as a reminder, we cannot give you personalized admissions assessments.

So please don’t share super specific details about your profile and the questions because we cannot summarize your chance of getting into a college, but we’re more than happy to answer general questions about the admissions process. So the first question that we’ve got submitted is to what extent do activity descriptions matter in admissions?

Is it more about the list itself or the descriptions that we provide?

Anja: Um, there is unfortunately no clear answer. It really depends on who reads your application. And a lot of that is unfortunately true about the application in general. So you would have a college admissions council that will look at your list of activities And just look at the headings, right?

Because you have to sort of rank them and you have to find the subheading. Is it academic? Is it sport? Is it a job? Is it volunteering? So sometimes when I have too many applications where I’m really in a bind and I have to be quick, I will just look and see how many diverse activities there are and I will not really go too deep into the description.

The description should be short, you know, one or two sentences, three maybe. Because if you think about it, Somebody who reads your application on average has about two to three minutes to make a decision and that is reading an essay that is reading your grades and figuring out your GPA if it’s not listed that is looking at your recommendations.

So there’s a lot of things that we do where we kind of just have to really quickly browse. So I will say the description really should focus on what you have done in that or in an activity with organization. Did you have a leadership role? Put that right away. If it is something that helped you grow, like something where you learned about diversity, just keep that explanation to a minimum.

Um, like I said, two to three sentences maximum. But sometimes, most often, we will only look at sort of the subheadings of how many different things there are. If you have done, you know, a lot of internships, I just see job, job, job, job, job, and I’m like, what else is there? So sometimes, you know, that’s more important than the actual description, I will say.

Lydia: And when it comes to the descriptions, is there any way that students can format it so that it’s more skimmable, or they can convey the most important information? to an admissions officer who doesn’t have much time.

Anja: Yeah. Like I said, I would just really focus on your role in the organization. Like right away, I was president of this club, you know, for three years.

And then what have you done there? You know, I organized this or I volunteered at the pet shelter for, you know, two years working with animals really helped me under taught me compassion, um, for others. And, you know, I’m not showing my care for the community. So just keep it simple and to the point. Either tell me what you have done in the organization.

What was your role and what have you learned within that activity? Those are the only thing, you know, sometimes people will say, well, I I did XYZ. I did all these events. You don’t have to list everything. Just a general overview of what you were doing and what it has taught you about yourself. Kind of like the personal statement, right?

Very much to the point and really much really about you and and your growth in the process.

Lydia: And would you say that things like accomplishments, for example, awards from an extracurricular or maybe being recognized as, I don’t know, member of the year, member of the month, are those things that should be included in the extracurricular description or should it focus really more on the actual activity and what you did and what you learned from it?

Anja: There is an awards and honors section on the Common App, so I always say put that there. Versus also putting it in your description because again, you might just have somebody scan through the like how you categorize it and then missing out on the awards because we didn’t list it in both places. You can list any award certificate honor anything you have received in that second section.

It makes it easier for us to browse through. That makes sense.

Lydia: And do you have any advice for students who maybe they have all 10 activities, they’re going to fill up all the spaces, or maybe they even have more activities than they can fit in those 10? Any advice for which activities they should select or how to order those activities as effectively as possible?

Anja: So one thing I will say is you should list them based on importance to you. What are you most passionate about? What do you really want to highlight about yourself? And what is your story in your common app? Because that’s really what we’re doing, right? We’re telling a story on the common app. We know your grades, we know whatever AP’s you might have taken or IB courses or, you know, any extra courses that you have taken.

And now I’m going to read your essay, which will tell me more about you. Try to connect your activities if you can with the essay. If you’re writing about diversity or anything like that, then start with the things that you have done in that sense, because we’re looking at your overall story. But really focus on the ones you’re passionate about, the ones that are the most meaningful to you.

That’s what I want to know about and those I want to see first, because again, it tells me about you. And then you can also list the ones that you have been involved in the longest first, if that’s more meaningful to you. Because again, that’s also something we’re looking for, right? Like I said, longevity.

dedication. So that’s really important as well. Um, if you have more than 10, you can submit a resume as a supplement. So a lot of students will build a resume. You don’t have to. It’s not a requirement on the common app, excuse me. But, um, if you have more activities, which many students do, I don’t know how you guys do it.

What’s your time management? That’s impressive. Um, but you can absolutely add a resume, right? You don’t want to email every single admissions counselor and say, Oh, but I had five more things I want you to know about. We get those emails all the time. And unfortunately, Often we don’t have time to, to add them to the application because we do have, you know, 40, 50, 000 applications to work through.

So add the resume. It will tell me then something else. I will scan through it and I will see, oh, there’s so many more things, you know, that this, that the student has done. But 10 is really a solid number. Um, otherwise I might wonder what happened to your childhood. So try, try to, um, try to do the 10 if, if maximum.

Lydia: Okay. And in a similar vein for students that are very involved and have lots of activities, let’s say for, especially for something like volunteering, where maybe you volunteer at the soup kitchen and also at the local 5k for whatever disease, is it suggested that a student should combine activities in those kinds of situations or should they separate it for every organization?

Anja: If you have many things that fall under the same heading, like volunteering, you can combine them. Right. If you’re running out of space, you could say, you know, I do the animal shelter. I also, you know, run marathons for heart disease. You know, you can just list them again. It doesn’t have to be, um, you know, an essay.

It just has to tell me I’m going to scare him really, really quickly. Um, you know, what all have you done just because I want to see, right again, because I want to bring it to my campus, but I want to see if you are a good fit or what are you bringing? So. You can totally combine them.

Lydia: Got it. And I know that looking at the grade levels of the people that are on our webinar tonight, a lot of them are in 12th grade.

So do you have any advice for seniors who maybe are realizing at this point, I don’t have a ton of activities, maybe I only have three or most of the activities, even if I do have 10, a lot of them, I only did for a year or two. What advice do you have to them to make their application stronger on the extracurricular

Anja: front?

There’s probably more than you have done. You just don’t think about it. Right. So that’s why I’m pointing out things like helping at home, taking care of grandma, right? All those things are things that you can list on your activities list. So don’t just think about clubs and jobs and volunteering. Think outside the box.

I know there’s more to you and I know there’s more than you have done. Do you like to read, right? Are you an avid reader? Those are great things. Talk about your hobbies. That’s completely fine. Um, if you only have, you know, three to five activities, I’ve seen this all the time. That’s again, completely acceptable.

Um, you don’t have to have 10. Um, again, many countries, many, many students don’t have the opportunity to do 10 things. So I don’t want you to feel like you’re, you’re, you’re not going to have a successful college application. Um, if you have done something for years completely fine again, a lot of students start adding things 11th grade because 9th and 10th grade a sort of figuring out high school like what what’s high school actually like coming out of middle school is awkward.

Academics like friends, you know, those things are much more important. So a lot of things you might have added in 11th grade like clubs at school. You might be adding something now like student government and that is okay. What I don’t want to see is five things that you added the summer of junior year.

Okay. Like, like now, you know, like that seems a little bit like a last ditch effort that I rather you focus on three or four that you have done for, for an extended amount of time. But if you do start volunteering right now, or you do start a job over the summer at it, it’s completely fine.

Lydia: So I know you’ve talked a little bit about how, you know, sometimes there’s students who don’t have as many opportunities to pursue extracurriculars or get internship and shadowing opportunities.

Do you have specific guidance for how a student that maybe hasn’t had the opportunity to pursue any extracurriculars because they have to take care of family or they have to work? How should they address that in their application to ensure that the admissions officer has the full picture of why they may be lacking in the extracurriculars?

Anja: Often you will find those questions in the supplemental essays, right? A lot of schools have the question, you know, tell us about an extracurricular activity or something that you have done outside of school that’s meaningful to you. So if you want to explain there, you know, I haven’t had the opportunity because I’m, I’m helping raising my sister or I’m supporting my mom.

Those are the places where you can put those things. Or to be honest, if it’s, if it’s a big, um, it has a big impact on your life. If it’s something you do, write your essay about it. Right? What? What is holding you back? Or what are you doing? Um, that, you know, takes up so much of your time that has to be meaningful to you.

Right about that. We love to hear those things. But often, you know, we will also look at applications and kind of figure out what’s going on. You know that there might be other things going on. If you’re listing a full time job that you’ve done for three years, I know that you don’t have time in the summer to add things.

I know not everybody can afford a summer program at Harvard or at Yale or at Stanford. Because those are, you know, extremely expensive and quite frankly, not always necessary. Do an online research project. If you want to do something in your free time, um, you can reach out to your local universities, um, to department heads of whatever you want to study and say, Hey, I’m a high school student.

I’m you know, a rising senior or junior, and I would really like to get involved in psychology, engineering, biology. You know, do you have research opportunity over the summer where I can support a graduate student? College teachers love that stuff. Because it is free help for their graduate students to do research.

And it’s something we can absolutely put on your activities list. That you have done research in a field that you’re interested in. That looks amazing. And those things are free. And it teaches you also something about doing research. And helping, um, helping a graduate student in the field. And then you might go, I don’t want to do biology anymore.

because that looks horrible. I had a student do that for law and she said, I never want to be a lawyer. I said, okay, now we know. So, you know, those things are, those are easy. And like I said, local colleges love help over the summer.

Lydia: Those are great to keep in mind for students that maybe have thought they didn’t have a way to access those kinds of opportunities.

So that’s great to keep in mind. Um, and I would also say if you are in a situation, especially, you know, a financial situation where, you know, You have to, you know, take on a lot of the responsibility when it comes to watching siblings or working and things like that. Even if you don’t want to include it in your personal statement, I know there’s also the optional essay on the Common App where you can write about extenuating circumstances and hardships.

So that can also be a great place to address those things. What’s the extracurricular things that Are a concern or grades and all sorts of things like that.

Anja: Yeah, I mean, the Common App is full of spaces for you to explain your story, right? Because that’s really, we can’t get everything out of the, the three things, you know, activities, essay, and grades.

Like there’s always more to somebody. And so you’re absolutely right. Um, take advantage of those, um, optional questions and, um, spaces,

Lydia: right. And I know, um, earlier in the conversation you were talking about how a lot of students sometimes don’t realize how many things that they’re participating in and that, you know, sometimes it’s a hobby or something that you just do for fun and it’s not a part of a formal club or anything like that.

Do you have advice for students that are taking the time to kind of think about their hobbies and trying to put that on the list to fill it out? How should they explain that or quantify it? For example, if it’s something like reading or just reading. painting from time to time, but they haven’t really done it any formal setting or competed.

How should they talk about that?

Anja: So you can always work with your high school counselor, one, because they’re really usually pretty good with helping you, um, frame those things. But like I have students often that taught themselves musical instruments and they’re like, well, I’m not really like playing it professionally or in a band, but I don’t care.

You know, if you, if you have taught yourself painting or you, you use painting. to de stress or, you know, to sort of, um, convey your passions. Just write about, just put art for your activity and then say, you know, in my free time I like to, to draw, I like to paint, I focus on landscapes or, you know, I’m an abstract painter or I taught myself the piano since I was four years old and, you know, I tutor others in it or, you know, I play for my mom.

You can, all those things be like personal stories, right? I think families often think that it has to be some really academically, professional sounding, um, story, but you’re teenagers. Just tell me about what you love so I can learn more about you. So it doesn’t have to be written by a PhD student. Just list it as an activity, as music, right?

I, I play the piano. I taught myself. I’ve done it for eight years. And you know, it gives me peace of mind when I step away from my academic stress or at the end of the day. Those are the kind of things we love to see.

Lydia: Great. And so, um, another question that we have is if a student does a lot of, spends a lot of time on an activity, but it’s just seasonal, for example, maybe a sport, how do they represent the number of hours that they do on average?

Do they average it across the whole year, like zero hours in the summer, but 12 hours during the winter or should they just represent how many hours go towards it in the busiest time?

Anja: You know, I love the comment that when they added this and I was like, what does this even mean? Um, you know, who actually knows how much, how many hours they’re doing something, you know?

So what we’re really looking for is number one, if you’ve done it for multiple years, and people will say that, you know, five years, one year, if it’s a summer thing, you know, just put the weeks of the summer, um, you know, it’s, we, I don’t think we look at it as seriously. We’re just trying to figure out has it been something you’ve done for six years, two years, you know, summer activities, so maybe eight weeks, but eight weeks for the last three years, you know, so it’s, it’s not something that I think people take too serious when we look at it because we really sometimes don’t even know how to figure it out ourselves.

And again, you can put that in the description. You can say, you know, for the last three summers, I have worked at this camp. And it’s easier for me to see them, you know, than in the hours when it’s like 48 hours a week, or, you know, whatever it might be, that is something you can average out, and I’ll just take your word for it.

So it’s not, not, not to worry about that.

Lydia: That’s good to know. And I know a lot of students feel pressure to have a bunch of extracurriculars that are really closely aligned to their intended major. How critical is it? that they have multiple extracurriculars that line up with what they’re saying they want to study in college.

Anja: So again, I will say that it depends on the schools you’re applying to, right? So a Reach school or an Ivy for engineering or business would like to probably see some sort of internship or research project or, you know, some students started their own business online or a fundraiser or, you know. Things like that.

It’s a little bit harder for engineering because you can’t really shadow engineering per se. And a lot of engineering majors not going to finance. So, you know, what do you really want to do with engineering? But, um, most schools that are not up there in the ivy spectrum, um, really we do understand that, like I said before, you might change your major, right?

You again, you’re young. You know, the major is more of something that we think you like to do today. So we don’t really admit to the major. We admit to the university again, looking at it holistically. But there certainly are schools. Yes. If you look at a Harvard, a Yale, um, an MIT, a Wharton, um, where you should have some sort of, um, business activity, engineering activity, science activity on your resume.

And again, if you can’t do an internship, there’s a lot of online, um, activities like competitions that are free. Okay. Um, I know we have those resources here, but anything you can google it. Um, I had a student that got into MIT. Um, she’s done activities with NASA, you know, online for many years since ninth grade.

And, um, she found them herself. So you have to do a little bit of research about those things. Um, but there are online competitions, writing competitions, research competitions that you can get involved in. And even if you don’t win anything, you can say, I participated in the competition. in this over the summer of, you know, 2023.

So, um, it shows that you have done something in the field because they do like to see that you are aware of what you’re getting yourself into, right? Because they want you to know, do you really want to do business when you apply to Wharton? Um, but again, not a requirement because not feasible for all, um, especially for students from abroad.

It’s not always that easy. So. You know, I don’t like to put too much weight on it, but I do think that some of the higher reaching schools would like to see that you have done something research related or shadowing or internship related to the major that you’re going into.

Lydia: Got it. Um, another question that we’ve got is, is there a distinction in how extracurriculars are represented on the common app?

Like, is there a way for a student to distinguish that they’ve done something since elementary school or middle school? Or does that show up the same as an extracurricular that they’ve only done since the beginning of high school?

Anja: Um, it shows up, um, as an activity, but you can, again, write, I’ve done this since I was five years old.

So you just have to write it out, but there isn’t like a distinction and, um, you know, I’ve done this. You just have to really ride it on there.

Lydia: And is it for the, for you as someone, an admissions officer for them, right? Uh, if a student has done, let’s say two or three, just a small handful of extracurriculars, but they’ve been doing them for a really long time, is that meaningful enough, or is that usually not enough if they’ve only done maybe two activities for a very long time?

Anja: It’s a hundred percent meaningful if you have done something for a very long amount. Check it. I have students that are dancers since they were very little, and I know how much time that takes. There isn’t really, you know, it’s a very dedicated field, or tennis players, right? So, there isn’t really time to do many other things.

So, again, it shows leadership, it shows commitment, and it shows you’re passionate about something. So, it’s okay if I only see two or three things. It’s completely fine. There’s nothing wrong with that. I’m not looking for ten things on every application. It’s fine. It’s just not always feasible.

Lydia: And in that same vein, for students that do play sports and it takes up a lot of their time, um, especially if it’s the sport that they’re preparing for competing in year round, is it an issue if that’s the only thing that they really do and they don’t really have any extracurriculars that are academic or volunteering based or related to their intended major?

Anja: Again, I think that would depend on the school. Well, I have seen many applications, um, Where people just play soccer, but in a competitive level, you know, across the world. So, um, I don’t hold that against them. Um, I wouldn’t, and I know how much time that takes to travel, to games, to practice, right, to, to really dedicate yourself to something like a sport.

And you’re probably looking to be recruited. in some way, right? That’s why usually students start very young in sports and become very competitive because in the end, your goal is to be recruited for an athletic scholarship. There’s no shame in that. Um, so that is completely fine. But again, I think if you are looking at an Ivy, they might think about that differently, right?

They’re like, why aren’t you more diverse unless they’re really recruiting you because then they probably don’t care. So, um, you know, I don’t hold that against the student again. It’s really hard for me to say that a teenager has to do eight different things to be a successful student in college. That makes no sense to me.

Um, that does not, that does not rank you as being a successful student. Um, it just shows me who you are as a person and what you’re involved in. And if soccer is your thing, if tennis is your thing, I’m fine with that. There are plenty of students who focus on athletics, that’s completely fine.

Lydia: Yeah, I know the, the question about sports and how much of an importance it should play is always a difficult thing that I face with my students, and I always tell them, especially if I have the opportunity to work with them from a younger age, like sophomore year, there’s sometimes a, a, you know, a divergence in the road of are we going to fully invest in this?

Or is this something where we have to cut back on time in order to prioritize other things? And it usually comes down to how competitive are you at this point? Does it seem like this is something that can actually be advantageous for you to get into schools or get scholarships to schools? Or is this something that you just really like to do, but you’re not necessarily that strong where school colleges would recruit you for it, or you could lead with it.

So I usually tell my students, you know, if you’re not super competitive, and it’s just something that you happen to spend a lot of time on it, it probably would be better for you to just do it as like a club on a club team, or, you know, playing for your school and give yourself time to do something else in addition to sports, rather than just playing tennis or just playing soccer.

Anja: And again, you know, adding a volunteer. Opportunity is simple. Um, like animal shelters always look for dog walkers, for example, right? So, um, if it comes down to the wire, you know, or online research, you can still add things, but you’re absolutely right. If you have dedicated your childhood to becoming a professional, you know, college athlete, then run with it.

If you’re that good, right? A coach, reach out to the coaches right away, junior year, you know, and work with them and, and see where you fall. And then decide if you can add other things if it’s not meant to be.

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Alright, so now we’re going to get back to the Q& A. Okay. So, um, another question that we’ve got is, um, can you just explain in a little bit more detail the difference in extracurricular expectations for highly selective schools, you know, acceptance rate below 10 percent versus less competitive schools?

Anja: So let’s think about the single digit acceptance rate schools, right? Let’s think about the IVs or, you know, the ones that Get 60 to 80, 000 applications and think about who you are going to compete with, right? So it’s going to be if you are the top of your class with 10 activities, three summer programs at high level schools, four internships, three research papers, most students in your application pool will be the same, right?

Because that is the profile that we think will get you into a rich school. We think that is what a Harvard is looking for. That’s not necessarily true because even a Harvard would like to diversify, um, you know, and not have all valedictorians with 1600 SAT’s. Um, you know, and for internships, um, on Wall Street.

So I think that when it comes to a rich school, um, They’re just always not my favorite, but, um, again, you need to really focus on your story. Um, yes, I do think that that would like to see something related to your major. Um, if you are going in that direction, um, if you’re an English major, have you maybe written something that you got an award for?

Have you participated in a writing competition or can you get a really strong letter of recommendation from an English teacher? Is there, you know, a club at school that you have participated in regards to that. Um, but what really sets you aside from all of the other applications that are just as competitive as you are?

Um, and again, it could be taking care of a family member and really showing compassion for something. It could be your essay where you have a really compelling story of something you’re bringing to campus that makes you unique, um, compared to, you know, everybody else. There unfortunately isn’t, um, a magic formula that I have.

for the 4 percent acceptance rate schools. And I get this every year with my own students. And I’m sure you do too. You know, when parents are like, but if we apply to all of them, we have to be able to get into one. I cannot guarantee that, right? Because again, every given year, just like a safety or a match school, as we call them with, you know, 48 percent acceptance rate, 69 percent acceptance rate.

We don’t know what these schools are looking for, and that can change every single year. Um, I think the IVs went through some really difficult times this year. Um, so, you know, there will be a lot of changes made there for next year. Um, what I can assume, um, on how they do recruitment and how they do their, um, their reading of applications, right?

So, um, you just have to be true to yourself. And if you, if you don’t get in, you know, you gave it your best shot. Your well rounded story is who you are. It is your essay, it is your activities, the things you’re passionate about. And if you don’t get admitted to an IV or a 4 percent acceptance rate school, that doesn’t mean you’re not a successful student.

It just means that out of the 80, 000 applications that they had, you know, they had so many other things they were looking for. And that is a really, really difficult thing to understand and deal with for students sometimes and families. But a safety or a match or, you know, whatever school you’re applying to, a higher um, acceptance rate.

Remember, college is the first step in your journey. then there probably will be graduate school. It is much easier to get into a Harvard or Yale or Stanford for graduate school than it is for undergraduate school because it is a lot less competitive. Most of us, myself included, worked our way up from a very unknown college to a little bit better and known graduate school to a high ranking, well, for me, a doctorate at USC, but which I will have to pay for the rest of my life.

But, you know, at the end of the day, College is just the first step, and college is not about the name or the ranking. It is about the environment. So the one thing I always am very passionate about is that you have to find a college that you are comfortable with, where you can grow as a person, where you can be supported, and where you can find the people that you need to be surrounded with.

Um, and that is not always a well known Ivy League type of environment, even though your activities and your essay and everything else is near perfect. Um, I don’t know what it is that they’re looking for on any given, on any given cycle, but all you can do is follow the things that you’re passionate about, the things that you love, and those are the things that are true to you and who you are as a person.

Those are the things you list on your, on your activities list. Don’t try to be somebody that you’re not and add those, you know, internships and shadowing opportunities if you’re not passionate about it. I’d rather you play a musical instrument or a sport or start painting. Versus, you know, trying to get a high ranking internship because everybody else that applies to those schools will have the exact same thing already on their resume.

So just be true to yourself. That’s really all you need to do. Now I went kind of on a tantrum.

Lydia: I’m sorry. Oh, no, I think that’s great advice that a lot of students and parents don’t always realize is that, you know, admissions officers are looking for authenticity. And if. They wanted everyone to just be cookie cutter perfect.

Then everyone at Harvard would have a perfect 4. 0 and a 1600 and do all the same extracurriculars, but they want diversity. So being yourself is going to usually get you a lot farther than just trying to do whatever you think the formula is to get into the best school.

Anja: And, you know, sometimes people look at these activities or, um, an essay, and I can tell, um, that it wasn’t necessarily the student’s choice.

Um, that sometimes it’s a parent or a counselor that drives these choices, right? That says you have to have this in order to get into this school and that’s not being authentic. That’s not, you know, giving me the vibe of thinking of, I know who you are as a person. Sometimes it’s very obvious, especially if somebody else writes the essay.

Um, so just be yourself. You’re like you said, be truthful to yourself, be honest. Um, and, and you will get into the school that you’re meant to get into, I promise. And. If it’s if it’s not an IV or, you know, a single digit accepted leave school, that’s fine. You can still go there for graduate school.

Lydia: So, um, another question we have is tying back to something that we were talking about earlier, volunteering, which is, uh, if a student is doing volunteering through an organization like National Honor Society, Key Club, Beta Club, those kinds of things, should they, uh, They always just put that under that organization of National Honor Society, or can they list that as a separate thing, for example, if they’re volunteering at the animal shelter, but they found out about that through National Honor Society.

Can they still list that as a separate thing?

Anja: Absolutely. I’d rather just know what you did versus, you know, who you’ve done it through. Like, I don’t need to know that. Just tell me about literally what you have done and what, like I said, what you, what has, what has that experience given to you? What have you learned from that or learned about yourself by doing that activity?

Lydia: Okay. And the last question that we have is how can a student demonstrate leadership through their extracurriculars if they never had a former formal leadership title like president or secretary?

Anja: I mean, that’s okay. You know, leadership is anything again. Um, a job that you might have had. Um, you don’t have to have a leadership role, right?

It could be also something that, um, Leadership in a classroom, right? Are you really good with teamwork or a leader in a group environment? And your rec letter teachers can write to that if you if you don’t have that activity or strength in your activities Have a teacher write about that for example, but leadership is many different things You know leadership is also taking charge of your life And so show me if you had a job or if you have volunteered like leadership I can find in many different places You It doesn’t have to be a leadership role where you are like the vice president of, you know, the debate club, for example.

Like it doesn’t have to be anything like that. Um, I can find leadership in many different things. You don’t actually have to use the word again, just describe the activity or what you have done in your job. And we will find, we will find the meaning in that in, in your activities.

Lydia: All right, so that concludes the Q& A of our webinar.

Thank you so much, Anja, for all of your insightful responses. I know that I learned a lot more than I thought that I was going to, uh, about extracurriculars, even though I talk about this all the time. So I appreciate you. for your expertise. And as a reminder to our audience, um, we hope that you enjoyed the opportunity to hear from our presenter.

And we hope that you will join us for future webinars this month. Uh, as you can see, we’ve got a few more planned for next week and the week after. So make sure to take a picture or look back at the recording later on to join us for some of the webinars we have planned for later in July. And I hope to see you all again later this month.

Bye. Bye. Thank you.