U.S. News x CollegeAdvisor: How Admissions Officers Make Decisions

Webinar Transcription

2024-04-11 – U.S. News x CollegeAdvisor: How Admissions Officers Make Decisions

Lydia: All right. Hello, everyone. I hope you’re having a great evening. Welcome to “How Admissions Officers Make Decisions.” My name is Lydia Hollon, and I’m going to be your moderator tonight. I’m also a senior advisor at CollegeAdvisor, and I’ve been with the company for about three years now. And in addition to that, I also advise students and am a proud co captain of our essay review team, as well as a proud graduate of New York University.

Outside of CollegeAdvisor, I’m an education consultant. and a former teacher. So to every, orient everyone with the webinar timing for tonight, we’re going to start off with a presentation, then answer your questions in the live Q& A. On the sidebar, you can download our slides and you can start submitting questions in the Q& A tab.

We will be recording this session tonight so that you can review the webinar again later. Or catch up on anything that you may have missed, but now let’s meet our presenter, Ferrell Armstrong.

Ferrell: Well, good evening, everyone. Uh, it is nice to be here. My name is Ferrell Armstrong. I have my glasses on this evening, so a lot different than that photo.

Uh, but I have worked in college admissions my entire career. I started my career with the university of Georgia before moving to Vanderbilt. And while at Vanderbilt, I was the assistant director. I was also a member of the admissions committee and the chief of international admissions as well so excited to be with you this evening and kind of Walk through the whole process of how admissions officers make the decisions.

Lydia: Awesome. Thanks, Ferrell. So before we get started with our presentation tonight, I just want to ask you all a quick question to get an idea of the demographics for our audience. So what grade is everyone in? Feel free to answer that. And while y’all are feeling Filling out that poll, um, just being mindful that if you are a parent to respond with that other category.

So to give you all a minute to respond, um, Ferrell, I’m just curious, what was the college obligation process for you?

Ferrell: Oh, I’m, I’m a danger ranger. Do not do what I did. So, Um, I was a recruited athlete and I also was pretty limited in my school list. I only applied to three schools and, um, got into all of them and then was going to swim at one of them and then decided not to swim due to a shoulder injury.

And I just think back now about had I not gotten into those schools because I applied to so few what would have happened and I think I would have freaked out. So I definitely do not suggest applying to that many schools. I would apply to a lot more now.

Lydia: I think I applied to about eight schools when I was in high school, which at the time I think was Like, what we were told to do, like, most people were applying to no more than 10 schools.

But these days, it’s like, kids apply to 15 or 20, so, just shows how the times are changing.

Ferrell: Yeah, when you can say that you’ve done this for nearly 16 years, it really starts to tell you how fast time moves, and I’m there now, it’s starting to freak me out how quickly this is progressing for me.

Lydia: Yeah, okay, I’m going to close the poll now and it seems like the vast majority of our audience tonight, 58%, are in 11th grade, which is a great time to be watching this webinar tonight.

Uh, we’ve also got 12 percent in 10th grade, 6 percent in 9th grade. 1 percent eighth grade. So really trying to get ahead of the curve and then 23 percent parents. We don’t have any 12th graders. So everybody is exactly where they’re supposed to be tonight.

Ferrell: That’s all right.

Lydia: I’m going to pass a tea Ferrell so we can jump into our presentation.

And as you all watch, feel free to put questions in the Q and a we’ll get to them at the end.

Ferrell: Well, again, it’s so exciting to kind of sit down and speak with everyone. And thank you for kind of sharing a little bit of your Thursday evening with us. Um, again, so my name is Ferrell Armstrong. I have been an admissions officer for nearly 16 years now.

Um, after, you know, stepping away from working as a university admissions officer, I’ve done a lot of consulting and then now work here as an admission specialist at CollegeAdvisor. But I think it’s important to start off the conversation this evening to kind of Frame out your expectations and I say everything I’m going to say tonight with the greatest respect intended but I hope I can break a lot of rumors and I I hope that I can also reset your expectations of what this process Actually looks like because there’s a lot of stuff that you probably have in your mind That’s nothing but rumor and there’s a lot of stuff that you probably haven’t heard of before So hopefully I can kind of go through some of that this evening But the number one thing I want to start with is, is getting everyone to accept that no matter what our hopes and dreams are as parents and as students, the number one thing that’s going to influence your admissions decision is the university’s personal needs.

Okay? Starting out with departmental needs, are there openings within certain departments? Do they have large gaps that they need to fill within a particular major or within a particular school? That is going to be something that immediately influences the admissions office. And how we start to create and shape our admissions class for the year.

One thing that influences departmental needs it’s not just students graduating But a subtle thing that a lot of families are unaware of are students studying abroad And so if I have students that are not physically in person on campus, but now they’re abroad for a year That’s a slot I still need to fill or else I’m paying an instructor, paying a professor that doesn’t have a full classroom.

And that does not make a lot of economical sense. So departmental needs will always be the number one influencing factor, um, that goes into determining the overall university needs for the year. One of the things that I think is also important to kind of talk about are the fact that schools do, I should say universities and colleges maintain relationships with a variety of different institutions and programs.

When I refer to institutions, I’m referring to high schools. A lot of times, families will be told a rumor that, You know, they can’t accept more than five kids from this school, or they can’t accept more than 20 kids from the school. That is pure rumor that that is nothing more than someone else that’s fed that to you.

And they heard that from somebody else. At the end of the day, a university or college is going to take whoever they want, when they want, based upon whatever reason they want. They typically are going to pick the best students that fit their needs. And it’s not based upon, You know, we can only take so many kids from one particular school in most cases, but what I’m referring to here in the term of relationships and how that influences a university need is a lot of schools do try to maintain longstanding relationships when you may have had a school that has consistently sent, you know, 150 applicants, you know, our way.

Each year for the last eight to ten years and we may have a history of taking, you know Three to seven of those kids a year. Well, we sometimes there might be gaps in that sometimes we may not see a qualified applicant That is applying from that school for a three maybe a four year period And to keep those schools happy to know that we still think about them and we still appreciate what they’re doing We might sometimes make an exception and admit someone that might be just ever so slightly out of our acceptability ranges to make sure that school knows that we haven’t forgotten about them and we still do, you know, remember them and appreciate them and want them to know that we are paying attention and following them.

I think outside of that, you should also be aware that universities and colleges try to maintain relationships with a lot of third party programs. And so there are programs, you know, through the State Department for international students, uh, such as the, um, EducationUSA program. And, you know, they, a lot of universities will try to admit students that are affiliated with EducationUSA.

And they might take a certain number of EducationUSA students each year at a certain school. Now, not all schools do that. It just depends on who the school is and, you know, what their relationships are with those third party programs. Um, you, you know, will also find there are certain scholarship programs that exist, where universities might have, uh, you know, a decision where they want to take, You know, so many kids from a certain, you know, regional scholarship organization that might focus on a certain kind of core group of students.

And so it’s important that you understand when we’re kind of looking at this. We are not just making decisions based upon, you know, Hey, we just got to fill a bunch of seats. We also have to keep a lot of other organizations happy. And we also tend to see hot spots, right? We don’t want to lose those hot spots.

So if we continuously see a lot of very qualified applicants from a certain, you know, a high school or a certain program, we’re also going to keep our eyes on that. And, and keep a heavier foot, um, you know, or a heavy hand in on the spoon there and try to keep bringing students in if they’re qualified, because if they’re willing to commit to the school and pay the tuition, it’s pretty difficult to walk away from highly qualified students that are doing that.

Now, geographic representation is, important to a lot of schools. I would say most schools, but not all schools. And what I mean by this is most schools within the United States would like to maintain a 50 state representation of, you know, having students, at least one student from all 50 states. Now you’re smaller regional schools.

Aren’t really practicing this, but your primary research one institutions, your primary public schools within a state, and of course your, your bigger, you know, more highly ranked private schools, they all want to see a 50 state representation and frankly, a global representation as well. Um, but this does bring into account some, some things that are a rumor and some things that are true.

And the biggest one that we should discuss. enrollment caps. Schools do practice enrollment caps, but it doesn’t necessarily work in the way that, um, you might imagine. So, I think that the first one that we should cover are, you know, enrollment caps that are being placed upon schools, specifically public schools, perhaps by a state legislature.

Um, so I started my career at the University of Georgia. And, uh, the University of Georgia, along with a lot of other top public schools, um, a lot of them are under the guidelines of their own state legislature to where they can only accept so many students outside the state that they reside in. So, for example, um, you know, University of Georgia has a 41 to a 43 percent acceptance rate on a given year.

And it’s not a reach school, but it doesn’t exactly equal that to a target school. It’s kind of between the two based upon the acceptance rates. Um, but anyone outside the state of Georgia should treat the University of Georgia as a reach school because you probably would have a less than 20 percent if not lower than 15 percent chance of being accepted simply because you are not a state resident of Georgia and the Georgia state legislature has told the administration that they have to focus on On state residents and limit out of state enrollment due to taxpayers Believing that they should have first first dibs per se and that is something that a lot of you know Larger public schools are starting to practice.

It’s very popular right now in parts of Texas, North Carolina, California Even here in Tennessee where I live in Nashville um, but enrollment caps do exist in other ways and I’m, not saying that we put enrollment caps on by You High school, like I said, we don’t do, you know, earlier on when I talked about relationships, but we might put enrollment caps based upon region.

And an example I will have of that is. Sometimes certain regions can oversaturate a certain school, and sometimes a school might have to be cognizant of this and limit their enrollment from a particular area because they could become, you know, too lopsided. You know, when I was at Vanderbilt, Tennessee was the most represented state on campus, followed very closely by Illinois.

But it wasn’t really Illinois. It was the greater Chicago area. Well, it was growing to a point where the, the applicants out of the greater area of Chicago, we’re going to outpace Tennessee students on Vanderbilt’s campus. And it actually did surpass that at one point. And so it became a point of conversation where.

We do have to try to be a little bit more balanced and not over-saturating ourselves from one particular area. And that is something that all schools will practice. Okay. This last point here, before we move on is a little bit more difficult to talk about and, and it can be uncomfortable for some families and I’m trying to come out this with the greatest respects, you know, intended here.

So please understand that I’m bringing all this to your attention so you can make a more informed decision. Um, but the financial situation of a university. is probably one of the larger things that university admissions officers have to take into account when making admissions decisions. Um, unfortunately today there is a growing number of schools that are what’s called tuition dependent.

These are schools that rely upon hitting a certain percent of students being full pay in order to keep the doors open within the university. And there are a lot of schools. That are quite popular bigger schools than you might imagine that are in fact tuition dependent And if they don’t hit their enrollment goals that school can shut down very next year So making sure that they are targeting families that may not need as much financial aid It’s something that is, you know, important to a lot of these schools today.

And that brings us to the discussion of need blind admission or need aware admission need blind. Admission is when a school will not allow your financial needs to influence your admissions decision, need aware admission, your financial needs will influence your admissions decision. Therefore at a need aware school, the fact that you are applying for financial aid could be.

A negative in your overall review. I’m not saying it’s going to be the sole factor that gets you denied, but it could influence your decision. Therefore, it is important to understand when developing your school list, you need to have a proper balance and make sure that you are not applying to too many schools that practice need aware admission.

Unfortunately, today’s schools don’t like to bring too much attention to it because as we can all imagine, if you’re being told that due to your financial needs, that could be. holding you out of the school, you may not even waste your time applying. Well schools that are need aware are typically fighting an enrollment crisis and they don’t want to limit their application numbers so they don’t really bring too much attention to it either.

So it’s something that you need to be cognizant of as a family because I have unfortunately in my time doing this I have come across families that have applied to nothing but need aware schools and been denied to every single school and they were academically qualified and they couldn’t figure out what happened.

And that was because they probably needed more money than what those different schools felt comfortable with what they could provide. So to kind of go on down the road and, uh, give you a better example of this, unfortunately this is very much in the news right now. Um, there is a school that has just in the last couple of weeks announced that they will be permanently shutting their doors in Birmingham, Alabama.

And that school is called Birmingham Southern College. Um, Birmingham Southern has been a long standing historical university. Um, you know, had a very good academic reputation, but started to see some financial issues over the last 15 years. It got to a point where they lost over $92 million from their endowment and were not able to put that money back after they provided the university self loans, and that led to a growing financial crisis and their enrollment started to dip, and then they weren’t able to hit two tuition requirements, which then required them to pull more and more upon their financial.

endowment, and then that drained the accounts. And so they reached a point where they could not remain open without securing a loan. And, um, it became a very political situation unfortunately, and they were unable to secure a loan to remain open. So Birmingham Southern is now permanently closing its doors at the conclusion of this semester.

So these are all things that you need to be aware of, and you need to be asking schools, do you practice need aware admission, or are you need blind in the review process? It’s a very simple way to figure this out. So never be afraid to ask that question because it is information that you need to have.

So of course, the bigger piece of this outside of university needs is going to be your actual profile. And what is I think unique is a lot of families don’t know that most colleges and universities today practice something, you know, called a high school rating and a high school rating is where we essentially rank your high school.

There is a rating system and I’m not going to go into the ins and the outs of how your school is ranked because every university and college has a different system. And kind of different categories that they use to rank your school. Um, and there’s for the record there’s over, you know, 6,000 universities in the United States.

I can’t give you all the details for all 6,400. There’s actually over 6,400. Um, but you do need to know that your school is rated and That is actually the starting point. So based upon your high school rating, You could start higher or lower in a school’s admissions process Now that you know this this is where a lot of questions are going to start and I need to tell you this Respectfully forget about it and let it go.

You can’t change it. You’re at your high school They’re not going to tell you what your ranking is. If you call the admissions office your school is ranked But you can’t change it. So don’t let it influence anything more. Just be aware of it. Okay. Outside of that, your gender is something that schools will take into account.

Um, with the, you know, recent Supreme court decisions on affirmative action, most schools will no longer be practicing, you know, affirmative action in the decision space. Some schools are still kind of determining how they’re going to proceed with that, but gender has been unaffected. And so gender is going to be something that schools base their decisions on.

I always, when I was an admissions officer, I used to find it funny when families were under the impression that we just miraculously ended up at like a You know, 49:51 male to female ratio. None of that was on accident. It was always on purpose. So your gender will influence your admissions decision. And, and I’m going to tie that back into your major in a minute.

Um, but the other piece here is rigor of curriculum. And this is one that will tend to create a little bit of frustration. And, and that is, Your rigor of curriculum is more important than your GPA. Um, you could have a 4.0 GPA and, and get denied to a school because you took a standard curriculum, yet your school offered AP or IB courses to you, and you elected to take standard courses versus more challenging courses like AP or IB.

Make no mistake about it. Uh, a school is going to prioritize a student with a 3.8 that took courses. over a student that in, you know, had a 4.0, but instead of taking AP at their school, they took honors or standard courses. You need to understand that the rigor of your curriculum followed by your, your success in that curriculum is a primary contributing factor to your admissions decision.

Of course, there’s That being the case we go into the most heated topic of conversation as it relates to admissions right now And that is standardized test scores SAT and ACT Um with that being the case Um, most schools would still prefer that you submit a test score if you go test optional They now have to utilize or I should say they now have to rank your weight Excuse me They have to weight your essays and your activity descriptions Two to three times more in the review than they normally would.

Okay. So it’s typically in your best interest to prepare for SAT or ACT go through test prep Whether you you know hire a test prep service or you self, you know prep on your own Prepare for the test and try to get the absolute best score you have or you can because it will help you The better the score you get the better off you’re going to be I I do want to take a step back and go back over to AP and IB for a second IB is You Not typically offered at schools that also offer AP.

So if you attend a high school that offers both AP and IB, that’s very rare. Um, but if you are one of those students, you should take IB over AP. It is viewed as being a lot more challenging than AP. And if you’re in a position, and this is where I’m going to ruffle feathers, if you’re in a position where you can take AP or dual enrollment, And your school counselor is taking, is encouraging you to do dual enrollment and it’s going to help you in college, that’s a huge mistake.

Most schools do not give you any credit for dual enrollment courses. Um, if you are using those dual enrollment courses to meet your high school graduation requirements, okay? If you’re using dual enrollment courses to meet high school graduation requirements, most universities and colleges are going to count you as a day one freshman and you have four years of undergrad ahead of you.

Most schools view AP and IB courses, not most schools, all schools, view AP and IB courses as being significantly more challenging than dual enrollment. And so you should always try to go towards AP or IB before dual enrollment. The only time that I would suggest a dual enrollment program is if you have exceeded the available AP or IB curriculum that your school offers.

Maybe you’ve taken all the available AP math classes and you’re in your senior year and now you don’t have a math credit Now dual enroll for a math class. That’s the perfect time to do dual enroll. Okay Finally that your major of interest, um in the department, you know the school within the university That is also going to be a contributing factor and the reason I’ve listed this here kind of last is it is actually These first couple of points before it are going to influence the are going to influence your admission to that particular major or to that Particular school and what I mean by that is do you have the type of rigor?

Have you taken the proper courses and have you performed well enough in those courses to be qualified for, let’s just say, an aeronautical engineering major at Stanford? Or do you have the proper background and success to be studying, you know, biochem at Hopkins? Have you taken the proper curriculum and performed well in that?

That’s going to influence your decision. Do you have the proper curriculum for that major? Also, what is your gender? So another great example here is female engineering students. Um, engineering, predominantly a, a male dominated, um, space, right? Well, with that being the case, When I was at Vanderbilt, we prioritize female engineering students.

We Vanderbilt to this day has the highest female, uh, male, female ratio of engineering students on any campus. And so the fact that a female applicant was applying for engineering, that increased their chances because we are trying to continuously grow our female engineering numbers as well. So all of that will be a contributing factor to your overall decision.

In addition to the departmental and university needs. Now how we’re actually making our decisions is as we review your application Most schools use a ranking system or a rating system and essentially what these five, you know Ratings are in front of you. I’m awarding you points across them Some schools use a one, you know, a one to five rating some schools use a one to ten Uh, there are other ratings that have A lot of confusion.

We’re not going to get into them, but other schools do use different kind of scales Um in my experience most schools use a one to a five or one to a ten uh that being the case as we are reviewing your application my job is to Go through a series of things i’m trained to look for and evaluate you on And then establish those points ratings for you across these five categories And simply put, the more points you acquire, the more likely you are to be admitted.

So your academic rating is obviously going to be influenced by your academic performance, your curriculum, uh, your test score, and then what a lot of families totally forget about is your class rank. A lot of high schools today and a lot of schools overall, both internationally and domestically, will tell you that they do not track your rankings.

Yes, they do, because they, you know, could not establish, you know, a valedictorian if they didn’t. And with that being the case, We will take rank into account. Not all schools will, but a good majority of schools will. And so, if your school ranks you, we’re gonna influence, we’re gonna let that influence your decision.

If your school doesn’t rank you, we’re still gonna let your rank influence the decision. Because, I can contact your school, and they will tell me typically, what percentile you would typically fall in, or what decile you might fall in. And that gives me what’s called an estimated rank. And I can use estimated rank to influence your admissions decision as well.

The personal rating is, is influenced by your essays, you know, your personality coming out in those essays. So I encourage every student to be very vocal, you know. Um, it’s okay to be an introvert, but you need to be extroverted in your essays about being an introvert Because if you don’t share enough about yourself, we’re not going to really be able to Understand your personality type and you know, and that’s something that’s important to us And so be yourself share, you know your personal vibe if you will Um, and of course other things that will influence that personal rating will be what teachers or mentors are sharing about you in their letters recommendation and perhaps You know, maybe leadership roles that you might have a similar rating is the school fit rating.

I’m using a similar, you know, kind of, you know, area of influential areas to, um, excuse me, I’m using a similar set of influential criteria to influence that rating. And so, with that being the case, um, your essays once again, that will kind of start to tell me your vibe. Your letters of recommendation are going to speak to, you know, your community involved in if you’re getting involved in the local school community.

Um, and then of course, you know, your activities also tell me how active you’re going to be within the school community. And that is something that most schools look for. I, I look for social academics. I want to admit someone that I know is going to contribute to the school community as well as the academic community.

That’s what we’re looking for. Um, of course, you do a lot of times at a school have a standalone activity rating. Um, this could be, you know, You know, you could be getting more points or ranked higher by the level of achievement you’ve had in a certain type of, you know, sport or club or just, you know, something you developed on your own.

Um, it could be influenced by, you know, leadership roles or perhaps, um, you know, how rare that organization is, right? Um, so an example of rarity would be, you know, the NASA summer internship. NASA takes 25 kids a year for the summer internship. They have well over 200,000. Applicants per year. In fact, I think there are over 300,000 applicants per year now.

So the fact that you get the NASA summer internship, huge deal, significantly higher rating in the activity rating at that point. Um, your length of involvement. I want to see you being committed to something. I want to see three and four year commitments. I don’t want to see six month commitments. Uh, so it’s important that, you know, you stick with what you’re involved with, especially for you juniors here this evening, if you’re not necessarily in love with some of your activities.

May not be the best thing just to quit them because that length of involvement might look better. Uh, and then you heard me mention earlier, you know, something being developed by the applicant. It is very easy to join a pre existing club or organization. And I’m not trying to take anything away from what those clubs or organizations may be and what they might achieve.

That’s fantastic. But when you build something, when you create something on your own and you distribute it and share that information or program with others, that’s another level of commitment. That most kids don’t show us. And what I’m referring to here are passion projects. When you can develop something that relates to your major and you build it on your own separate from other organizations or, you know, activities that you could be joining, it really kind of shows me just how committed you are to this.

And it makes me rank you a lot higher in the activity rating because I just. You have a greater just overall proof that you’re serious about it. And then the overall rating is kind of basic, but it’s just, we typically, we’re just going to take an average of the first four and give you an overall rating.

When we’ve averaged those first four together, some schools will do another rating, um, called leadership rating. Um, and things will influence that as well. Like letters of recommendation. I know it seems funny that, you know, you see letters of recommendation listed in multiple areas there, but. Some schools will practice a full on separate leadership rating as well.

So that’s kind of how you’re being reviewed. So as I’m reviewing your application, I’m awarding you these points in these categories and simply put the more points you get, like I said earlier, the more likely you are to be admitted. The kind of, as we start to get close to the end here, the way the review process works has dramatically changed over the last three years.

So the pre screening process has typically been, Your application will be received and then you would have your GPA recalculated. Your non core curriculum would be taken out and then your GPA would be recalculated simply based upon your core curriculum. Um, and then if it was qualified for an admissions officer, um, it would be sent to the admissions officer.

Some schools now have algorithms handling the pre screening process. Some schools are denying up to 15 percent of their applicant pool just by using a pre screening algorithm before an admissions officer ever touches it. When it gets to me, an admissions officer, I am now in charge of reviewing your application, reading it front to back, um, you know, rating you in those category ratings that we just talked about in our last slide, and then relaying supporting comments that support my recommendation of your application.

So am I recommending you to be admitted? Am I recommending you to be denied? Um, I have to leave supporting comments to whatever pathway I suggested for your application, and I have to be prepared to back that up when. If your application reaches committee now, day to day is something that kind of happens in the back end, uh, day to day is done by those of us typically on the admissions committee within the leadership team.

And what we’re doing is, is we’re looking at all the averages of GPA and course rigor. Uh, we’re, we’re looking at test score averages. We’re looking at geographic location numbers. And what we’re able to do is we create kind of an average. And below that average does not get to come to the admissions committee for final consideration above that average will will be brought to the admissions committee, um, where we physically meet as a group and we.

We actually discuss your application, uh, and the possibility of you being admitted. Uh, so day to day is just a bunch of numbers, and if you’re not into data, it can be very boring, uh, but committee review, this is, uh, what I like to joke, uh, I, I joke, but it’s actually, it can be very serious. It is serious, but it can be very, very, um, intense.

Um, the admissions committee can be like Thunderdome. And, uh, if you don’t know the Thunderdome reference, Google Thunderdome and Mel Gibson. Early nineties movies will pop up and you’ll realize how old I am. Uh, but the point here is that this is where things can get contentious. I have to go represent the students to the admissions committee that I reviewed earlier, whether I suggested them for admission or if I suggested them to be denied.

I still have to present their application to the committee. Um, and then the committee is going to take a vote based upon all the information that I’m providing them. Now I was an admissions committee member, so I was one of the five people at Vanderbilt that could vote on who was accepted. Um, and so I know what it’s like to not only be someone presenting to that leadership, I, I also know what it’s like to sit on that committee and hear these students presented.

And what I will tell you is. Things do get unique at times. Um, I have actually gotten frustrated. And we do go to bat for you. I, I, I get connected to my students and reading about your achievements. And I, I, I cheer for you. And I, I, I get hopeful for you. And I, I get mad if my students don’t get admitted.

So, please know that admissions officers do care. Um, this is not some emotionless process. Uh, I have had seen colleagues cry because of a student getting denied that they really wanted admitted. And I think that should speak to, you know, the level of commitment that these individuals hold and the seriousness that they, you know, approach their job with.

So please know that you are cared about. Um, but at the end of the day, I hate to sound like someone that’s cold hearted. It does come down to a business decision for the school. And that leads us to our final process of the enrollment modeling. Enrollment modeling, um, is the very final stage. It happens after we’ve made our committee review and.

Even though we may have voted to admit you in committee, you’re still not guaranteed to be admitted until after the enrollment modeling process is finalized. We may realize that we have too many, you know, you know, students in a particular program. We overloaded the arts and science department. We need to reduce it by 2 percent and then we need to increase enrollment at our educational department by 4%.

So that might mean someone, you know, an additional admit is made and Someone’s pulled out of a different department. Um, that is what the enrollment process and the enrollment modeling process looks like. And what we’re doing is we’re leveraging predictive modeling and data analytics to make these informed final selections of who we should move and who we should, you know, not move and why.

Um, for those of you that don’t know, modern college admissions follows a data science and that data science is called enrollment management. Enrollment management is a graduate field of study that you can go to school for and get a master’s or even a PhD in. And so we’re utilizing that at the leadership level of these institutions to make our final evaluations and decisions to decide who we are going to admit.

So I think it’s important that you understand that when you’re evaluating schools, you need to know Are you a qualified applicant? Do you have the proper activities and academics? That they are looking for. And if not, be honest with yourself. Do you think you’re actually their ideal candidate at that point?

And then I think it’s also important that you understand how you should properly target each school. And then there’s no better way to determine that than starting to visit schools now. Starting to research schools and starting to connect with not only admissions officers, but you know, current students that can speak to their own experiences at that school.

So not only can you determine if you think it’s the proper place for you, but if you think you are the proper fit for what that school is looking for. And I hate to say this, but I should. You may feel that that’s the school is the perfect fit for you, but you need to understand that that may not still make you the perfect fit for that school.

Be aware. And so with all this taking so much, you know, time and effort, it’s an overwhelming process. And you know, currently today almost half of all applicants, I think it’s 44 percent or 43 percent of all applicants are getting third party assistance in the process. Our team here at CollegeAdvisor, You know, we’re ready to help you.

We’re ready to have a conversation. And we have well over 300 advisors at this point in the game that are able to assist you and guide you through this process. And so not only is it going to simplify it and de stress the process, but it’s going to increase your chances of admission and scholarship and lead to a much more, I think, successful overall journey for you.

For you as a student and as a family. So if you are concerned, if you have questions, feel free to, you know, send me an email there, [email protected] or at the conclusion of our meeting this evening, there’s going to be a way for you to sign up for a one on one session with myself or another one of our colleagues.

And we can go through and discuss your own personal needs in a more private basis and see if we might be able to offer you some assistance. Uh, but so excited to take your questions and thank you so much for being here.

Lydia: Yes, thank you so much Ferrell, that was really informative and I appreciate you going through that in so much detail as someone who is also, you know, supported with admissions decisions in the past.

I feel like you really hit the nail on the head and I appreciate the candor with what you were able to, uh, Go through it. I think it’ll be really helpful for um, the people that we have in our audience tonight Um, so a question that I was seeing a lot in the Q& A tab in different ways Um for worded in different ways is basically What should I do or how is it considered?

My school doesn’t offer AP classes, but I want to go to a really selective school. Is that going to keep me from being able to get into my dream school?

Ferrell: Not at all. So if, if those of you notice, I said it, what is available at your school, right? So if your school offers AP, you should be taking AP if you want to go to that level of school.

But if your school does not offer AP, You need to be taking the most challenging available curriculum at your school. So if the most challenging curriculum at your school is honors, then you should be taking honors. If your school does not offer any type of honors classes and they just offer standard classes, then that’s the most challenging curriculum at your school and you will not be having.

Any additional judgment placed upon you for that. You’re only being judged upon what curriculum your school made available to you, what you took and how well you perform period.

Lydia: Makes sense. Um, and a question in a similar vein to that people kept answering it. I think I answered it in the chat, but I, I’m still seeing people ask it, which is what matters more weighted or unweighted GPA, are they both considered?

How are they compared to each other?

Ferrell: Yeah, that’s great. No, so they’re not going to be compared. Most schools, if your high school reports your weighted GPA on your transcript, most schools will review you based upon your weighted GPA. Now, again, keep in mind, we’re going to toss out anything that’s not part of your core curriculum.

So, band, I was in choir, okay, P. E., all of that’s tossed. It’s just your core curriculum. Now, if your school does not report your weighted GPA, on your final transcript, then the university is not going to use your weighted GPA.

Lydia: That makes sense. And something I had said in the chat was, um, it, when making admissions decisions, it’s, it’s not like they’re just looking at your GPA in a vacuum, like, oh, this kid has a 4.0 and this kid has a 3.9. They’re also looking at your transcript, which is why I tell kids like, be, and you also said this earlier, like, Be intentional about the courses that you are taking as well, because they’re factoring in how you got to that GPA. So, yes, weighted, unweighted, whatever, you may have a higher weighted GPA, and then a lower unweighted GPA, or something like that, but if that weighted GPA It was only high because you were taking easier classes or something like that, then it’s not going to have as much weight.

So they’re looking at everything holistically when it comes to that transcript, they’re not just looking at a number and deciding who to accept and who not to

Ferrell: course rigor along with that GPA combined a GPA without course rigor without knowing what your rigor of curriculum was tells me nothing. I have to see what courses you took.

And your performance in it to make that informed decision.

Lydia: Um, and we did have some questions also about departmental needs. I know you started off with that. So, um, one question was that, uh, about applying undeclared undecided, how are students applications kind of taken into consideration for departmental leads?

If.

Ferrell: So let’s reframe this because I’m seeing the question that you’re referring to and the question is, you know, um, liberal arts schools to say that most kids come in undeclared and undecided. That’s right. Kids do come in. More kids do come in undeclared and undecided. That’s not what schools prefer. Right?

So the vast majority, the largest category of applicants to any school are undecided applicants. No one should take this the wrong way. I’m just telling you this from the perspective of the admissions office. But undecided applicants are the weakest applicants because they’re the most common applicants.

When you can tell me why you’re applying to my school, by telling me what your major is, what you’re hoping to go do with it through your essays, how we can support you in that process in your You’re dramatically increasing your chances of admission because not only you’re telling me why you’re applying, you’re telling me why and we should admit you and how we can help you.

You’re doing my job. So you’re giving us a purpose to admit you when you apply for a particular major and you have a profile to support that. Internships, shadowing, research, clubs, things of that nature. If you’re coming in as an undecided application, now I have to find out why, why we’re the proper place for you to begin with and do a lot more research.

Always understand that yes, undecided applicants are the most common. But it actually makes them the weakest applicants because they are the most common.

Lydia: Yeah, and I would definitely agree with that as well. Like, applying undecided, you’re kind of putting it on the admissions officer to try and kind of imagine where you might fit based on the profile that you’re presenting, so I may see that you’re doing a lot of model you in and debate and think that you’ll probably gravitate towards our political science department, but that doesn’t mean that that’s actually what you’re going to do.

So applying undecided requires a lot more guesswork on where you may fit in versus if you just pick a major, it makes it easier. Um, I, I wouldn’t necessarily recommend doing this, but I have heard of students who pick like wonky type of major sometimes because they know that it’s It’s something that not as many people are applying for and it makes them more competitive.

So

Ferrell: even then though they’re more that puts them in risk too, right? So like what a lot of students used to do at Vanderbilt, they wanted to come in engineering, but they knew they weren’t academically qualified and they’re like, Oh, I’m going to do education. We denied them because nothing on their profile spoke to education, it all spoke to engineering, right?

So it’s, you need to apply to a major or target a major that your experience relates to. Whether you stick with it or not, I’m talking from a strategic perspective. Apply to a major that you have a profile that supports. Once you get into the school families, you can change your major to whatever you want to do, right?

But you’re going to be more likely for admission and scholarship by applying to a particular major and having a profile that supports it. Yeah. Yeah.

Lydia: Yeah. Definitely. Um, and something that another student was asking about when it comes to departmental needs, they were basically wondering, is there a way to know what kind of departmental needs a school may have?

Is there a way to access that kind of information? Or is that kind of kept hush hush within the admissions office? Hush

Ferrell: hush, you’ll never know. Many admissions officers sign NDAs. So, I, I actually, for one organization I work for, I was under an NDA for two years post leaving, uh, the institution. So, um, yeah, so many admissions officers have NDAs, um, so they, they can’t talk about it for a period of time.

So, until those admission standards change, um, yeah, so it, it, that type of information is not for public disclosure about what their actual immediate individual needs might be. Got

Lydia: it. And so, um, this is a very kind of broad question, but I think it’s interesting. Um, how do you know if you are the ideal candidate for a school?

Ferrell: Yeah. So they’ll tell you. Um, and so if, if you reach out to an admissions officer and you start to kind of, you know, go, first of all, you should familiarize yourself with their website, you should familiarize yourself with their fast facts page, where it lists average GPA, average test score, rigor, curriculum, all that full disclosure, if you’re not in that average of what’s on the fast facts, if you’re below the average on a school’s, you know, quick facts page, you’re probably not qualified full disclosure.

Now, if you’re in that range. Now is okay. You, you, you’re definitely within, you know, within the range of acceptability. What you should be doing now is having more detailed conversations with that admissions staff, reach out to your designated admissions officer. And, and try to get tenants at a time asking a few very pointed questions relative to, Hey, you know, if I made, you know, let’s just, I’m going to make this up here on the spot.

If I’m a human and organizational development major, do I have the proper academics? Do I have the proper activities on a profile that you think would be admissible at a surface level? And you need to tell them like, Hey, I understand you can’t give me an answer, but am I, do you think I’m competitive?

They’re not gonna lie to you. They’re going to, most of the time, they’re going to tell you straight up if you’re competitive or not competitive. So don’t be afraid to reach out. And I think a lot of families don’t reach out and I say this respectfully, I think a lot of families don’t reach out cause they just don’t want to be told the truth, right?

You know, but I think it’s important. So you don’t waste time. You know, be willing to accept that truth so that you can create a more unique school list that you have a greater chance of admission to

Lydia: think that makes, that makes a lot of sense. Um, so another question that we have is basically just what are the things that admissions officers are taking into consideration?

The most when they’re deciding how to admit a certain student.

Ferrell: So it’s everything that we just went over, right? And so that’s kind of what we’re doing here this evening is it’s it is your profile. It is your academic achievement. It is your rigor of curriculum. It is. You know, have you developed a solid extracurricular profile relative to your intended major?

You know schools don’t want well rounded applicants. That’s a long standing rumor that’s been around since I was in high school Um schools want very defined and specific applicants. That’s where their that’s where their um, you know preferences lie They they want to see a student that’s approaching them with a purpose and an intent and so if you’re coming in and you have 15 activities and Maybe one thing possibly relates to your intended major.

That’s a weaker applicant than someone that’s coming in with five to six activities in three or four of them relate to the major, right? So all of that comes together and influences the final decision.

Lydia: That makes sense. And, uh, but in that same vein, I know I saw a lot of questions kind of asking about.

Questions like my academics aren’t that great or I didn’t take any APs in high school. Is there anything that I can do to kind of outweigh a weakness in academics or is that something that’s so crucial to my application that being stellar in extracurriculars really isn’t going to make up for?

Ferrell: That’s the truth right there.

Your foundational, the foundation for you to be successful in this process is. academic success. And I, I say this with all, all, you know, respect intended here. I know I repeat that all the time, but if you have a 3.0, you’re not getting into Harvard. It’s just not going to happen. And I don’t want to break dreams and I don’t want to be upsetting, but there are still wonderful opportunities that exist out there for you.

And it’s about finding that right place for you, that you are academically qualified for. You can’t do anything late in this process to make up for, you know, a rough academic period. Now schools do track. Upward grade trends that that will influence some of their admissions decision. Um, but overall if you are significantly Outside their typical ranges of acceptability.

It’s just it’s just not gonna happen

Lydia: Yeah, that makes sense

Ferrell: and I I hope people can understand i’m not sitting here trying to be rude It, part of my job is to be brutally honest with you and I’m, I’m doing that. So you have a fair understanding of, of how you should approach this process. I’m not trying to upset anyone.

Lydia: Yeah. And I think that that’s really important because. Especially with something as high stakes as applying to college, it’s incredibly important that you’re going in with clear eyes and a clear understanding of how these decisions are really made so that you’re not applying to schools that you have a very slim to none chance.

of getting admitted to. That’s a waste of your time, your money, your efforts. It’s better to be strategic. Um, just so I’m gonna segue really quick into plugging in, um, CollegeAdvisor. We’ve got a team of over 300 former admissions officers like Ferrell, like myself, um, and admissions experts who are ready to help you and your family navigate college admissions processes in one on one advising sessions.

We’ve already helped over 6,000 clients in their college journeys and in our 2021 to 2023 data, we found that heart CollegeAdvisor students are two to four times more likely to get into colleges like Stanford, Vanderbilt and Harvard. So increase your odds and take the next step in your college admissions journey by signing up for a free 45 to 60 minute strategy session with admissions specialists on our team using the QR code on the screen.

During this mission, this meeting, you’ll receive a preliminary assessment of your academic profile along with some initial recommendations. And in the end, you’ll also learn more about the premium packages that we offer that pair you with an expert who can support you in building your college list, editing your essays, and much more.

So, if you have any specific questions, like, my GPA is this, my SAT is this, will I get into this school, or do I need to do this? for joining us. I highly encourage you to schedule one of those consultation sessions. It’ll really help you get a clear idea of what your strategy should be and also how we can support you because applying to colleges can really be a battlefield and having someone who really understands the process and can help you, um, navigate through it in a strategic way is incredibly important.

Um, so I, uh, Ferrell, I know you were just talking about how. In reality, when applying to selective schools, at the end of the day, academics is something that is really going to be your bread and butter. You can’t expect to go to an Ivy with a 3.0 and things like that. And I couldn’t agree more. You have to be realistic.

Um, but I think something that has become kind of like a buzzword topic in college admissions is this concept of a passion project. I think kids feel like that’s something that they need to do. They need to start a nonprofit or do a startup or something like that. Is that something that’s really important?

Are admissions officers kind of expecting that from selective schools at this point, or are there other ways to stand out in an application?

Ferrell: There’s always other ways to stand out. Yeah. There’s no doubt about that, but passion projects are a very it term right now. But in my experience, I mean the vast minority of kids actually did them right.

Um, unfortunately the passion projects you do hear about are, you know, they started a nonprofit and. I mean, we don’t, we actually, it’s very difficult to believe you’ve done a non profit and done any success with it when, you know, we see so many kids doing non profits. And so, um, a non profit passion project isn’t really going to do much for you because that’s what everybody else does.

Um, another one, and this is, this is going to sound harsh, you know, one of the number one things that came out of COVID, you know, was I did, I did free tutoring. I really appreciate your commitment to helping those that needed it. And I really appreciate you giving your time, but because of the widespread people, amount of people doing free tutoring services, it doesn’t hold any values, a passion project right now.

It just doesn’t. And so if you’re going to do a passion project, it needs to be unique, right? And what is unique? Well, that depends on what your passion is. And that depends on what your major is. And, and so I can’t sit here and give everybody an answer of what their passion project should be, but I can tell you, it should be what other people aren’t doing.

That’s the number one thing, you know, i’ve had you know kids do passion projects mile the wild I had a kid Uh when I used to live in Dubai He was not able to take part in an internship because uh the law and the UAE is that you cannot do Any internships to the age of 18? We sat down together and he was interested in finance We ended up writing a business plan and he operationalized his own micro financing firm where he actually created a board of, you know, advisors.

They then created a nomination process and then actually provided micro loans to entrepreneurs in a few developing countries. And, uh, that’s pretty cool. And, uh, he just wrapped up at Wharton school of business last year. And then I had another student. This is a mild example instead of a wild example. Um, I had another student that, you know, during the pandemic, was able to use social media to, uh, bring awareness to rehabilitative exercises that you could do prior to athletic events to prevent injury.

He had torn the, I think it’s called the Tommy John ligament or whatever in his elbow from being a baseball pitcher. And so he developed a following on social media for that. And that was a unique passion project. Um, and so, they really can, you know, be very different. It’s just, I would encourage you to not try to go mimic what a bunch of other people are doing.

Lydia: Yeah, I couldn’t agree more with that. Um, I would rather see a student who has really done like something amazing in a club that they’re the president of and has like, can speak to how they turned that club around and like led their team to success or something like that than a student who. throws together, you know, the same nonprofit of, I don’t know, like making masks for kids during COVID or, you know, tutoring a few kids in their neighborhood and then calling it a nonprofit.

I think that a lot of people are getting caught up in that buzz term kind of concept to the point that it doesn’t really have true depth to it. And there’s, like you said, there’s not a lot of impact. So If you’re gonna do a passion project or do some sort of non profit, make sure that it’s something that you’re actually willing to pour a lot of time into and have something genuine to show for it.

Don’t just do it to be able to say, I have a non profit but there’s no real impact to it. or I have this, you know, YouTube channel, but if we look it up, there’s only two or three, you know, videos on it and then it fell off, you know, follow with the things that you actually are interested in and actually like spending time on.

And that’s going to be a lot more genuine than just trying to have something that sounds impressive, but doesn’t really go very far.

Ferrell: Fully agree. Um,

Lydia: another question that I saw was a student who is interested in doing, you know, humanities or the arts. They were asking if it’s important for them to take AP classes in the sciences or in math in order to show that they’re taking the most rigorous classes possible, or is it okay for them to just focus on taking the AP arts and AP humanities classes?

Ferrell: It really is typically going to be, you still need to be focusing on a full spectrum of APs and IBs because even though you, you may be focused on the arts and that’s awesome, you’re still coming into a rigorous curriculum at a university that’s going to have a rigorous, you know, you know, core curriculum, you know, expectation in addition to your actual major specific courses.

So you’ve got to be able to show them that you can handle that. And if you want a highly selected school, like someone, I shouldn’t say like someone, but like a school in the top 25, top 50, you should still be taking those more challenging courses for sure.

Lydia: Yeah, I definitely agree with that, which is unfortunate.

I know some people, it’s like, you know, you’re great at the humanities, you’re great at the social sciences, but you’re not that hot when it comes to math. But, you know, the more selective it is, the more, that is one situation where you kind of do have to be well rounded. You can’t just be good at the subject that you want to major in.

You need to be strong, um, in all of your classes. Um, so another question That we had was just kind of like about a student who maybe wasn’t highly motivated when they first started high school It’s not that they had bad grades But they just didn’t choose to challenge themselves And let’s say that they wait until their junior year to start taking any APs or really start pushing themselves academically Or on the other hand, maybe they did well in school But they didn’t do any extracurriculars until their junior year or senior year You Is that a red flag to admissions officers or do they admire a student who is able to turn around that second half of their high school career?

Ferrell: It’s not necessarily a red flag, right? Like, I think that question also relates to a lot of families like, well, I’m only doing these activities like right before my senior year. Does that really, you know, do anything like or do admissions officers like, you know, not like it because it looks like I’m just doing it for college.

No, like it’s not just what activities you’re getting involved with. It’s like. You know, your academics improved your activity, involvement, improvement comes a collective piece. And, and then what really kind of goes along to supplement that are your letters of recommendation, because when you can have these teachers, it’s like, Hey, Ferrell really struggled his freshman year, right?

He started to pick it up that second half of sophomore year. And by junior year, he really had it together and we’re proud of him. It feels weird to talk about myself in third person, but that was my story. Okay. Uh, and the reality here is that, that, that is noted by schools. Now, how much that’s going to impact your final decision.

That’s variable by each individual school. That’s, that’s the truth here. Will it be noticed? Will it be appreciated? Yes, but it just depends on which schools end up on your final applications list and their, their approach to that change.

Lydia: That makes sense. Um, and the last question I want to ask you before we wrap up for the night.

is about grade inflation and grade deflation. So we’ve got students who are concerned that maybe at their school almost everyone has above a 3. 5 and then other students who feel like, you know, my friend goes to the school where everybody gets A’s, I’m going to a school where it’s really hard to even get a B.

How do admissions officers compare between those things? Should students be worried about that if they have a teacher who’s a really hard grader, um, While other kids have easier teachers.

Ferrell: It’s out of your control. You have to let it go. Not to sound like a smart aleck, but I’ve practiced some stoicism and just go with the flow.

Because at the end of the day, you can’t change it. You don’t, you can’t change your, your teacher. You can’t change how your teacher grades you. All the school is going to know is what is on that transcript. That’s it. Not that you had Mr. Mrs. Or so and so or them. The reality here is we’re just going to see.

The name of the course, the grade you were assigned, and your overall cumulative GPA. And that’s all we’re going off of. So, I know that can be concerning, but you have to just kind of let that go. Keep giving the best that you can every day in class. Keep giving the best, you know, at your extracurricular activities.

And try to enjoy the ride and not let that type of stuff creep into your head. The last thing I’ll leave you with the number one thing that you as a family, as a student, as a parent should do is let the rumors go. Rumors create so much stress and anxiety in this process. If you’re stressed about it, give me a call, shoot me an email, scan that barcode, sign up for a meeting.

Let’s have a private conversation and we can hopefully bring a little bit of, you know, closure to some of those concerns to where you don’t really have to worry about that anymore. It’s been a pleasure meeting with you. And, um, I hope to talk with you soon.

Lydia: All right. What a great note to end that on.

Thank you, Ferrell. Um, that was our presentation for tonight. Uh, thank you everyone for coming out. Thank you to Ferrell Armstrong. That was a great, really informative session. Um, this is, concludes our webinar. If you all would like to learn a little bit more about the admissions process, uh, feel free to join one of our other webinars.

You can see here, this is our April series. We would love to have you all back. We’re covering all sorts of different topics related to the college admissions process. So hopefully we get to see you again and I hope all of you have a great night. Thanks for coming out.